And the election craziness continues!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I know of observers in one location that were supposedly blocked in PA, but the work going on there was overseen. That issue wass corrected. I’m sure there will be a recount. To me that issue is the one valid one Reps seem to be hanging onto like its bigger than what it really is. There are lots of things where it can be said that even a whiff of it looks bad.

I guess I am caught off guard by suggestions we federalize election processes. That offends even my conservative values. And it surprises the hell out of me that its being suggested by Rs.

The mail in voting issues and later than normal results because of the volume are self inflicted wounds caused by state legislatures. states that have had mail in voting for years seems to have gotten their ballots and counts done on time. Why no allegations of fraud in those states? I live in a red state and even dumbass old Oklahoma managed to get its record number of mail in votes counted. Because our election boards started processing them two weeks ago. No fraud allegations here in a very big Trump win. Wonder why?

Prove it in any of yourexamples and I’ll listen.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

Didn’t some Judge rule that PA had to accept mailed ballots for 3 days after the election after the Dems accused Trump of trying to suppress the mail in vote by consolidating mail processing locations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Penguin]

I live in a red state and even dumbass old Oklahoma managed to get its record number of mail in votes counted. Because our election boards started processing them two weeks ago. No fraud allegations here in a very big Trump win. Wonder why?

Prove it in any of your examples and I’ll listen.

BKB

You don't hear about it in lots of states, big and small.

I just did. AND we all know now how the fraud ~could~ work. And now we all understand that the fraud is very possible but would be impossible to detect in a lot of cases. It's not in any way as secure as in person voting. It has to go. But if you want mail in ballots, which I don't, then for God's sake at least look at how Colorado prepped for it and then did it. The most right way possible with this method of voting. But just to send out unsolicited ballots by the millions and then fuck around for a week trying to verify and then count them? Madness.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I imagine all state election boards will be looking at processes in the post-covid world. Technology has also played a role in some of the issues.

Is this the issue you were talking about in Nevada Will? https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/tru...0oNt1vUDWSEnOy
It looks like their Supreme Court addressed it if it is. Signature matching tech has came up a couple of times. But that resulted more in manual processing to resolve those than it did fraud. At least that’s how it seems. I don’t imagine third world countries use AI signature matching technology.

Sometimes we outsmart ourselves!

BkB

[Penguin]

Yeah that's it. And it just shows that you have crazy stuff through the mail that in person eliminates entirely.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Yeah that's it. And it just shows that you have crazy stuff through the mail that in person eliminates entirely.

LOL the issue was automation, not mail in.

Their IT department said that wasn’t in the requirements!

BKB

[Penguin]

For some of them. They were trying to figure out how to deal with mismatched signatures.

You have to understand where I'm coming from Posty. I don't want anyone thinking that I am saying the election was stolen or anything like that. If you ask me straight up whether I think that Team Biden stole the election? I would answer honestly that, no, I do not believe it was.

I think what happened was the same thing that helped to turn the 2018 election. A new method, ballot harvesting, was introduced in CA. A lot of people who wouldn't normally vote ended up doing so. And a lot of turnout was introduced into the election. The GOP adopted the method in California and reach equilibrium again this time around.

I think that kind of happened again this election with the mail in being so wide spread.

But for the first time in my life I have to use that word: think. Always before I knew in my heart that election fraud was so miniscule that it did not affect the outcome. This time around I think that it was still small.... but I do not know that. And I cannot dismiss it out of hand. See what I did there?

Any questions were only, in my mind, in a certain state up north and a couple cities. But in an election this close? I want to dismiss all the conspiracy theories out of hand but I can't. I can only say that I don't believe it was the difference. And I don't think that is good enough.

For me anyway.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

I hear you. And we agree on most of it. I think the the comparison of our election to third world countries is unfair. The pandemic caused the surge in mail in voting. Politics created the issues that you brought up, IMO.
And like you pointed out, there are best practices already out there if we can stop with politicizing the election vote counting process. People are even claiming that the party of the state governments is driving the fairness of the process. That is an insult to my 83 year old Mom who until this year because of covid worked as a volunteer in almost every election in her precinct for the last fifty years.

BKB

[airbud7]

4,898,082 voted in Georgia

and like magic this morning, Biden up 1,097 ..........almost 5 million people and he leads by 1000...

Election Georgia.jpg

[BarryBobPosthole]

That state is most definitely headed to recount.

The thing is, all this winner and loser declaration stuff is bullshit too. Most states won’t certify elections for weeks. Recounts can’t even start until they are certified. One of the states, Michigan maybe, doesn’t certify by law until 12/01.

BKB

[Penguin]

Very true. And it reminded me of the last time I saw a state refuse to certify an election. Don't know if you've seen this one but it was big news here on the coast.

Ballot harvesting in NC:

https://www.rollcall.com/2019/02/27/...sting-scandal/

Two points:

1) This was discovered through the use of statistical analysis. The state board went looking for this because the numbers showed a big problem with the results being way abnormal.

2) This was only prosecuted because they leaned on those involved and got them to turn on the leaders of this scam.

I guess what I would offer is that IF there was enough fraud to turn this election it will probably show up in a real analysis of the voting data. I don't mean some precinct gets 10% more votes than normal or something inane like that. This was a big election and that could mean nothing at all. I also don't mean some jackass on the internet throwing out something he heard from someone who heard it from someone else either. Point and counterpoint. Some things look abnormal and can be explained readily once you look at it. But if you dig around enough the scam will be there. And it will be obvious. If you want to look at it honestly.

But one point about where we go from here relates back to point #2. Just showing it and having statisticians confirm a huge statistical anomaly isn't enough. And if that is what Trump is banking on then he should just be quiet and start planning his retirement. Knowing is one thing and proving is quite another. You'd have to turn some of the people involved and get solid evidence that you can go to court with. And recounts ain't going to change a thing either. Once the ballots are in the mix it is too late. The only thing that could be done after that is for the election board to refuse to certify the election and demand a revote. And that is if you could prove the scam first.

An aside: I have intentionally avoided any online info on this kind of stuff so far. Too much crazy stuff will be put out in an environment like this. But if there was sufficient vote tampering to turn the election it will eventually be known. It may well be too late to make a difference in this case though. An ounce of prevention and all of that you know....

Will

[airbud7]

Could be:...people live much closer together in big cities and it's much easier hand out a legal ballot and have it returned at your convenience by the mailman?.....the mass numbers of people that live in these cities would blow a country boy's mind!...I could never live like that!... But hey!, they got the numbers!...we don't...._<"insert :-("

[Penguin]

Well I had a couple hours today before and after we got that screwing from Texas. (I demand a recount of that pass interference call that didn't happen late in the 4th!) And I crawled around on the net looking at all the evidence of "fraud". Do I still hold the view that there is (and always has been) election fraud. Yep. I can also report that there is a lot of craziness going on out there. Goodness.

Conclusions:

1) Remember when I said that most of the stuff that could turn an election would show up in the stats? Well this is what mass mail-in ballots and harvesting looks like. TBH in some states ballot harvesting is legal. In some it's not. I'm not going to run it all down, it doesn't matter. It's done and nothing will be done about it. Most D's don't even think there is anything wrong with it and don't care. Most R's don't like it because it's easier to use it to get big gains in big cities than in small towns. Independents like me go either way. In the end it's done and once it is done it cannot be undone in an election this big and controversial.

2) I've seen nothing that everyone could agree with in the category of fraud. Those graphs of the hockey stick looking returns for Biden? Those graphs cannot give an accurate accounting and every one I saw stopped at the jump and didn't show Trump's returns afterward. For stuff like that the raw return data has to be gone over. I assume the Trump campaign is doing just that. But even if true that doesn't mean that there was one single fraudulent ballot included. Why? Because this is what a well scrubbed area looks like after it has been "harvested" (see point #1). IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT RIGHT.

Dead people voting? Yep, I even heard that Guliani claimed that Joe Frazier voted for Biden. Funny as hell if true. Again this is what happens with mass mail in and ballot harvesting. You WILL have this from now on if you allow mass mail in. It can't be stopped. But still that isn't enough on its own to turn the election. It is just a sign that the rolls were scrubbed well by someone with a lot of time and money.

All I see are signs that an well organized and financed group planned and carried out one of the most beautiful ballot harvesting crops imaginable. Again, I don't even know if it was legal in the swing states of not. I made it a point not to. In PA I knew it was illegal before the election. It happened. It won't be undone. Get used to it. Either deep six mass mail in or get ready to do it in self defense because this is what it looks like and it will be the standard as long as you mail out millions of ballots to every registered voter.

Bottom line is that if this is all Trump has I thank him for making the good fight for all of us in the manufacturing trades and wish him well in his retirement. This won't go away and his lawsuits won't go anywhere. Sorry.

Will

[johnboy]

One thing I have figured out from years of politics watching is the the Left is WAY better at dirty tricks than the Right. I mean, WAY better! It just seems natural for them.

[Thumper]

As well as rioting, burning and looting, then justifying it.

[Big Muddy]

mojovo.jpg

[johnboy]

Also the left never gives up. They stick to the narrative and march in lockstep no matter what. The right needs to feel reasonable and willing to compromise. Sometimes you need to adopt the methods of your adversaries to win.

[airbud7]

I wish all Democrats were like Barry....He is cool and calm...

[Thumper]

I wish all Democrats were like Barry....He is cool and calm...

But FUUUUUGLY!!!

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’m worried that we’re facing a pandemic that is raging out of control and it seems like we’ve forgot how vulnerable some pretty important stuff is. The second time around can we plan on meat packers to stay open? For hospitals to be able to treat anything but covid?

We’d better get our shit together and do it lickety split. And that ain’t political.

BKB

[airbud7]

Love you Barry!...

PS: can we still be friends and I'll let you do all the worrying?....Thanks

[BarryBobPosthole]

I can worry enuf for both of us.

BKB

[Big Muddy]

I copied this, but I agree, and I don't want to hear sheeit outta you, either.


"""If you voted for Biden/Harris just bend over and take it in the rear, when:"""

> Your taxes skyrocket
> Gas prices double
> Health insurance cost go up
> You lose your job because 15 million illegal immigrants suddenly become legal and your employer hires them.
> Minimum wage is too high and your employer can no longer afford to stay open or even pay you.
> Your automotive or industrial job is eliminated because it's shipped back to China.
> Interest rates double or even triple, and homes/automobiles are not as affordable as they use to be.
> Your stocks and 401k take a massive hit.
> Your otherwise safe communities are overrun by crime and start resembling Chicago, Portland, and Seattle.
> We are locked into more endless wars in the middle east.
> When the educational system goes down the crapper and higher education becomes unaffordable.
> Also when the new administration makes a play for all of your legally owned weapons don't look to me for support, safety, or compliance.

[johnboy]

Not to mention billions spent (wasted!) on useless, counter productive 'Green' initiatives. Don't forget the "Green New Deal". Like California, look forward to rolling blackouts. How about more Critical Race Theory. Joe is countermanding the Trump ban in govt orgs. White Man bad!

[Thumper]

I copied this, but I agree, and I don't want to hear sheeit outta you, either.


"""If you voted for Biden/Harris just bend over and take it in the rear, when:"""

> When the educational system goes down the crapper and higher education becomes unaffordable.

Huh???? I thought it was gonna be free!!??

[Big Muddy]

We had some extra money, last month, so we voted what to do with it.....she voted "new kitchen cabinets", and I voted "new pickup".....the vote was 1-1 until after midnight, when 139,000 votes miraculously appeared for the new pickup .....she's hired a lawyer.

[DeputyDog]

Love it. Hahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big Muddy]

jandk.jpg

[Penguin]

1) This was discovered through the use of statistical analysis. The state board went looking for this because the numbers showed a big problem with the results being way abnormal....

I guess what I would offer is that IF there was enough fraud to turn this election it will probably show up in a real analysis of the voting data..... Some things look abnormal and can be explained readily once you look at it. But if you dig around enough the scam will be there. And it will be obvious. If you want to look at it honestly.

Will

I think I have now seen enough to say that there are some questions that have been showing up in statistics and they need to be addressed. Enough "which of these things is not like the others" stuff to at least warrant some serious discussion. A couple of them pretty large.

Are we mature enough to actually try to get honest answers instead of "nothing to see here" and the inevitable "we waz robbed!"? I seriously doubt it.

On a more important note: I demand a recount of that end zone interference no call against Texas on saturday. God damn! There has to be a pass interference vote in there somewhere. My god one of the officials wasn't 10 feet away and looking right at it!

Will

PS: Virginia Tech and Penn State, lol. Had to say that to someone.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Hopefully those things will be addressed as state officials go through their retabulation and certification processes. Which the states have untl early December to either certify or not.

Are you aware of any of the lawsuits pending that deal with the issue you think exists?

Texas got some home cooking for sure. That no-call was the beginning ofthe end for W Va.

BKB