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Thread: Vaccine Question for You Thinkers

  1. #1
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Vaccine Question for You Thinkers

    Was looking at the local paper and they were talking about the Rona vaccine. They were interviewing the Head guy at St John Ascension which is one of our biggest hospitals in Tulsa. He said when the vaccine came available that the medical staff at St John would have the choice to get it.
    Iím sure you get the part that made my antennae twitch. Choice.
    This is gonna open up a major can of worms I think, about vaccines and public health. If there is any place that Iíd assume covid vaccines would be mandatory itíd be among medical staff. Iíve not heard any stories yet of whether employers will/will be able to made covid vaccines mandatory for employees. It will be especially interesting to see whT they do about public schools, which IMO should be the next priority. Teachers, staff, etc. But what about students? Mandatory?
    For some odd reason you canít swing a cat in Oklahoma without smacking an antivaxxer. I suspect thos is going to another one of Ďthoseí issues.
    Here we go, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!
    I donít know what the number of required vaccinations is to achieve herd immunity but thatís a long ways off.
    What do you guys think? Mandatory or no? Is it constitutional to be mandatory?

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  2. #2
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    I think that there would be a lot of constitutional issues with making it mandatory.

    There are also some religious groups who oppose the use of aborted fetal tissue and cells in medical research and those types of tissues are sometimes used in vaccine testing and development, so they might refuse any vaccine developed using such tissues.


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  3. #3
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    I think everyone should have the choice, but the question is what choice? This goes far wider than just personal health, it affects the economy, our school systems, the military, our health care system and even the political landscape so it's not as easy as don't tread on my rights. Some people have the mistaken idea that freedom means no restrictions but we've never had that kind of freedom. The bible itself teaches that God instituted government and we are to be subject to the laws of the land. Many years ago I had an insurance policy that required me to wear a seat belt or the first thousand dollars of a medical bills were my responsibility if I were involved in a wreck. Maybe something along those lines where if you refused vaccination offered by your insurance then you'd be responsible for the first $25,000 if you developed Covid.

    there's no answer that is going to please everyone

  4. #4
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    It still floors me that a major hospital won’t require all of its workers to be vaccinated. My daughter starts her chemo back up for 12 more rounds starting Monday and my wife and I will be tag teaming as caregivers. That’ll last upthrough May. You can bet that’s a question we’ll ask CTCA when we get there next week.

    And I go back to liability auto insurance. Its required by law to protect the public from accidents that could ruin them financially. As if covid doesn’t or couldn’t. How can it be lawful for one and not the other?

    BKB
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  5. #5
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Yep, like flu shots, you have the nutbag religious groups who refuse to inoculate their kids. I don't know what the answer is there. The mandatory thing is a slippery slope I think and reeks of communism and/or dictatorship. Vaccines are normally required for kids going into school or daycare, but I have no clue what's mandatory or what sort of wavers are allowed. To make it even more complicated, those requirements are set by the states, so there are no set rules. I don't have an answer.

    That said, Lynn and I have been discussing this very same thing at length. She's on-board for getting vaccinated the minute it's available to her. Normally, I'd be right there with her, but I've been hesitant to jump on-board. TBH, I'd most likely get vaccinated right away, but for the first time in my life, I've got concerns. I've always been one to put a TON of trust in our government, but this vaccine has been rushed through without many of the checks and balances we normally require for new medications. When I went into the Army, I walked through a literal assembly line for inoculations ... we'd stop between two medics, each would give us a shot in the arm, we'd step forward a few steps, and a couple more medics would shoot us up with something else. Heck, I don't even think I knew what they were giving me or how many shots I received in that line, but I had zero problem accepting whatever they were dishing out.

    Heck, even with FDA approval, we still run into hiccups. I'm a walking time-bomb right now because during all my surgeries, the doc installed an IVC filter in the vein carrying blood to my heart. It was the "thing to do" back then. Now they're killing people because they're falling apart, pieces are rupturing veins and/or flow into your heart and you're dead. I asked to have it removed, but the process is more dangerous than leaving it in and keeping my fingers crossed. Heck, there are probably hundreds of cases in process for side effects or injuries from defective drugs and medical devices as we speak, all of which were thoroughly vetted before being made available to the public. How safe are these new vaccines going to be since all the hoops, hurdles and testing processes have been waved? I can envision what could happen 5 years from now when one of these big pharma companies say, "Oooops!"

    Anyway, those are my personal fears right now, but I have a feeling I'll throw caution to the wind and be one of the first in line to get the vaccine. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation right now.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

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    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Its kind of funny, but people who’ve been in the military are more naturally suspicious of shots. I remember getting those appointment cards to go get the next flu shot. Seems we were the test cases for new flu vaccines. It was an Article 15 for not getting them.
    Its also a fact that the cocktail of shots they gave soldiers on their way to Iraq is what caused many of the MS cases they are seeing in Iraq war vets. One of them is in my family. So the suspicion has merit, Jim!

    And for the record, its not just religious reasons people object to vaccinations. Jim Carrey and his ilk have awhole following of antivaxxers based on nothing but conspiracy theories.

    And on edit, when I went to the PI while working for Verizon I had to go get a series of shots, but I can’tremember if it was mandatory or not.
    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

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    What we really need is an idiot vaccine

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    Yeah, P-hole, whenever we travel, I check the vaccines required for whatever country I'll be visiting and make sure I'm up to date. I also check to see what vaccines are recommended due to current conditions and usually get them if I'll be in an affected area. I normally don't have a problem with being vaccinated for ANYTHING ... it's just never been a big deal to me.

    I'm not sure why I'm wavering on this one. I KNOW I'll get vaccinated as soon as my availability comes up, but it's the first time in my life I've really THOUGHT about the consequences. I think the positives outweigh the negatives right now, I just hope that doesn't change down the road.

    Yeah, I put the antivaxxers in the same league as most of Hollywood and don't pay a bit of attention to them.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

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    Member Penguin's Avatar
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    This vaccine operates a bit differently than previous ones.... I'm not sure long term harmful effects can be ruled out. I'm also not sure at all that they will do anything but help us out. But no long term tests makes me antsy. Chalk it up to a career filled with the necessity of testing the hell out of something before it is allowed on the track or on the street.

    I guess I'll be like everyone else and do what I'm told. For a lot of us who have a ton of face to face interaction it may be what allows us to resume a semi-normal life again.

    Will

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    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    If’n I was you I’d stay the hell away from VA hospitals and clinics for any reason until you do get vaccinated. Its freeso no reason to go to the VA. Hereabouts the VA facilities have shamefully high covid rates.

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  11. #11
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
    But no long term tests makes me antsy. Chalk it up to a career filled with the necessity of testing the hell out of something before it is allowed on the track or on the street. Will
    You hit the nail on the head as to my way of thinking Chilly. Maybe it's that Engineering gene we share.

    Right now I feel like it's one of those, "Well, this looks like it may work ... let's put it out there and see what happens!" If it breaks, he hits the wall and doesn't make it, we have plenty more drivers looking for a ride and they can test our new, improved version!
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Member Penguin's Avatar
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    That's a beautiful analogy Jim.

    "You win some, you lose some... you wreck some."

    Will

  13. #13
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole View Post
    If’n I was you I’d stay the hell away from VA hospitals and clinics for any reason until you do get vaccinated. Its free so no reason to go to the VA. Hereabouts the VA facilities have shamefully high covid rates. BKB
    It's like getting into Ft. Knox here P-hole. My "not-so-important" appointments have been postponed, but I have some necessary appointments that are pretty important. I've been to two of them recently (just had an ultrasound last week) and have a CT Scan this coming Monday. I won't list the precautions they're taking at "my" VA hospital, but they're serious about this and you're all but put into a plastic bubble before entering. The precautions and requirements are here if you want to dig through them:

    https://www.tampa.va.gov/patients/prepare.asp

    And they're dead serious about all of it. It's a PITA, but I appreciate knowing they aren't fooling around. As for "shamefully high Covid rates", I've seen no reports of it here.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

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    [QUOTE=Thumper;126995] (just had an ultrasound last week)

    That confirms what a lot of us have been thinking for a long time

  15. #15
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    I was gonna surprise youse dufes, but the cat's out'ta the bag now. It's a BOY!
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

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    I'm with most of what has been said here, mandatory is a slippery slope. And, for someone who had the rona I won't be jumping in line to get a vaccine anytime soon. I suppose if it had taken me more than a day and a half to kick, and my symptoms weren't comparable to seasonable allergies I'd be a bit more apt to jump in line. But if I'm comparing unknown long term affects and what I think my bodies ability is to fight it off I'll go with the later. I know, I know CNN told me I'll die if I get it...I'll still take my chances.

    If I was high risk I'd likely see this differently, hence I think there should be a choice.

  17. #17
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Viva Renaldo!

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    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Chicken Dinner's Avatar
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    Vaccine Question for You Thinkers

    Nobody gets on a plane or walks into a school without a vaccination card. Your choice on whether you want to travel or get an education. Simple.


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    Last edited by Chicken Dinner; 12-04-2020 at 02:42 PM.
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  19. #19
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    interesting reading on mandatory vaccinations in our history.

    BKB

    https://www.npr.org/2011/04/05/13512...cination-rules
    Viva Renaldo!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole View Post
    interesting reading on mandatory vaccinations in our history.

    BKB

    https://www.npr.org/2011/04/05/13512...cination-rules
    A 25-30% death rate seems like a reasonable # to make vaccinations mandatory.

  21. #21
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Here’s one thing I hope I don’t read about: NBA or NFL or MLB players gettingthe vaccine beforeits generally available.

    Surely not.

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  22. #22
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Or Democrats!
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Bite me.

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  24. #24
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole View Post
    I wasn't aware of that P-hole. Of course, I haven't watched more than 10-mins of news since the election (my choice).

    But what's odd is, the article mentions "Tampa AREA" hospitals, but only mentions Gainesville. What's even odder (is that a word? Spellcheck didn't catch it) is, I looked at the cities mentioned and something stuck out like a sore thumb. Almost EVERY one of those cities have Democratic Mayors. I don't even have a clue whether that affects the V.A. itself, as I would consider them Federal (?), but it's the cities with the highest incidence of Covid cases in regards to those particular hospitals. It started looking so weird to me, I scanned through the article and jotted down every city mentioned, then Googled their mayors. I don't want to get into politics, but man-o-man, I have to admit it jumped out at me immediately, but I really have no clue what it means. Here's what I came up with.

    New Jersey - Dem. Governor
    E. Orange New Jersey - Dem. Mayor
    Indianapolis - Dem. Mayor
    D.C. - Dem. Mayor
    Reno - Independent Mayor
    Puerto Rico - (ALL) New Progressive or Dem.
    Chicago - Dem. Mayor
    NYC - Dem. Mayor
    L.A. - Dem. Mayor
    Tampa - Dem. Mayor
    Miami - Rep. Mayor
    Boston - Dem. Mayor
    Minneapolis - Dem. Mayor
    Cleveland - Dem. Mayor
    San Antonio - Non-Partisan Mayor
    Orlando - Dem. Mayor
    Houston - Dem. Mayor
    Atlanta - Dem. Mayor
    Phoenix - Dem. Mayor
    Gainesville - Dem. Mayor
    Corpus Christi - Rep. Mayor
    Milwaukee - Dem. Mayor

    I honestly don't know if that means squat ... but it looks really weird to me.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  25. #25
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Whenever you get to having a point let me know.

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  26. #26
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Whenever you get to having a point let me know.

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  27. #27
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    My point is, you STILL haven't fixed your double-posting issue!

    Seriously, if the cities were governed by Republicans, don't you think the Dems would say that's the reason the Covid rates are so high in those particular cities? Maybe that's my point.

    It just jumped out at me as I read your article. That’s all. It may be relevant, it may not, but it’s my job as an official sd’er to point it out.

    My work is done here. Next!
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  28. #28
    Member Hombre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Dinner View Post
    Nobody gets on a plane or walks into a school without a vaccination card. Your choice on whether you want to travel or get an education. Simple.


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    I'm ok with planes as long as a private business makes that decision.

  29. #29
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Chicken Dinner's Avatar
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    Public schools have required vaccinations now. Why should this be different?


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  30. #30
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    I'm actually ok with schools to I just typed quick..... Schools or an option to learn online. More of the point was any commercial business has the right to chose whether they should or shouldn't require a vaccination card. I think the market will help them determine that. On things like mandatory shutting down of businesses, and watching people I know lose their livelihood, I'm not sure the government should have a say in that.

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