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  1. #1
    Administrator Arty's Avatar
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    I have...

    100,000 illegals living in my house.

    So when I get my new Biden census form... I WILL be writing that number in.


    He’s allowing it. It’s cool. Get on board cause it’ll affect local/national elections in 2 and 4 years.

    I swear to you 100,000 illegals live in my house.

    That all.

    Goodnight


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  2. #2
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Par for the course. Anything Trump was for, Biden will be against .... or if Trump was against it, Biden will be for it. He sure didn’t waste any time with his Executive Order reversals. I think shutting down the pipeline will piss a LOT of people off ... well, except for the Greenies.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  3. #3
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    OPEC is happy. The Saudis are already saying they plan on cutting production. We all know what that means.

    If Biden takes action against fracking will we see the $4 a gallon prices like in the early Obama years?


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  4. #4
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Interesting read on the consequences of shutting down the pipeline.

    3 Harmful Consequences of Biden Killing the Keystone XL Pipeline

    From CO2 emissions to jobs to investment, the president’s move will have the opposite of its intended effect.

    https://fee.org/articles/3-harmful-c...e-xl-pipeline/
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  5. #5
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    The Governor of Michigan also ordered a pipeline under the straits of Mackinaw shut down. They were working on building a tunnel to run the pipeline through to limit damage to the Great Lakes in case of leaks. That has been stopped and she is looking to permanently shut down the line which has been operating for almost 70 years.


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  6. #6
    Grand High Exalted Taser-Master
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    The big chains in the food/restaurant business are going to love the $15 minimum wage killing all the mom and pop businesses too. Goodbye Diners, Drive ins and Dives.

  7. #7
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quercus alba View Post
    The big chains in the food/restaurant business are going to love the $15 minimum wage killing all the mom and pop businesses too. Goodbye Diners, Drive ins and Dives.
    That will have the biggest effect on the very businesses that have been hurt the most by the Covid shut downs.


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  8. #8
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) airbud7's Avatar
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    for the restaurants that survive this the quality of service should go up!...we all know that certain employee that can do the job of three/four people all while maintaining a smile and a good attitude!...at $15 an hour that's who they will hire/ keep and lay off all the slackers.

  10. #10
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Chicken Dinner's Avatar
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    $15/hour will lead to even more automation and fewer jobs. Particularly, in the fast food business. It’ll all be punching a screen, using an app and no cash.


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  11. #11
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Lol, weeping, gnashing of teeth, amd clutching of pearls.

    Oh my what pretty snowflakes!

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  12. #12
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole View Post
    Lol, weeping, gnashing of teeth, amd clutching of pearls.

    Oh my what pretty snowflakes! BKB
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole View Post
    Lol, weeping, gnashing of teeth, amd clutching of pearls.

    Oh my what pretty snowflakes!

    BKB
    So what’s your take on this?

    How much of Oklahoma’s economy is based on the fossil fuel industry? Won’t this, and any future bans on fracking hurt it?

    How do you think a $15/hour minimum wage will effect small businesses? Will they be able to compete with large franchises and mega corporations?

    I don’t see how they can. As an example, my town used to have several locally owned grocery stores. Then a large regional chain moved into town. The chain basically took a loss on the local store so that they could out-price the local stores. They did, and eventually ran them all out of business. Well, karma came after them and a Super Wal-Mart opened and out-priced the regional chain and ran them out of business. Now, the only options for groceries are Wal-Mart and Meijer which is a mega chain through Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, and possibly Illinois.

    Isn’t more competition better for consumers?


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  14. #14
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    I was just poking at y’all. But those are good questions DD.

    Regarding fossil fuels and Oklahoma’s reliance on them for its economy, yes we do emply a lot of people in all aspects oil industry. we never talk though about the downside of that reliance. I’ve lived through so many booms and busts in the Oklahoma economy I couldn’t count them. They’re typically driven by the price of a barrel of crude oil. Right now the pipelines and new drilling and political issues of the day don’t have squat to do with energy jobs or the price of oil in my state. What is driving the bust in Oklahoma’s state economy rightnow is worldwide demand for oil has dropped by at least ten percent over the past year. Much of that decline is because of Covid and that isn’t expected to change in the coming year. 10% is devastating in the oil industry. No offence, but if we continue to pour investments into fossil fuels Oklahoma is going to end up like Kentucky and the coal business, where we’ll just end up with the shaft. Just an opinion, but I’d rather see Oklahoma invest in education and tech jobs with programs like Hombre mentioned yesterday, than build another 50 oiltank farms out in Cushing just to perpetuate an industrythat’s dead and so we can hang onto what oilpatch jobs are left in 20 years.
    The $15 dollar an hour minimum won’t drive small businesses out of business. Put more money in the pockets of workers and they will spend it, at small businesses. People say the same shit every time its raised. It was a buck sixty five an hour when I started working at minimum wage jobs at 16. How many times has it gone up since and did that kill small business? That model is just wrong. Again, IMO.

    On economic/political matters just watch how often government picks who wins and who loses economically. Keep track and you’ll see who the real free market capitalists are. Socialism, if you care to look up the definition, is just basically a planned economy where the government does just that. And protectionism of a particular industry by government creates these scenes where we’re stuck with it because its too painful to let go of. Hence: fossil fuels.

    BKb
    Viva Renaldo!

  15. #15
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    I just looked up the inflation rate and the current minimum wage adjusted for inflation is 90% of what it was when I started working at 16 years old. That’s not too bad at keeping it current with the inflation rate. I plugged in my current wages and compared it to when I started as an officer in 1993 and it is at 97% of the inflation rate.

    I’m not an economist but I don’t understand how more than doubling the minimum wage won’t effect costs overall.

    Yes there will be more “money in people’s hands”, but if your a business owner and your payroll costs double, how will you make up that expense? You aren’t like the government who can run on a deficit, so I’d guess you have two options. Cut employees to save on payroll costs and/or raise prices. If prices go up, those of us who are making more than minimum wage, who won’t be getting comparable raises, will have to pay more for goods and services, which, I would guess, leaves people with less money for discretionary spending.

    Inflation for 2020 was at its lowest since 2015 at 1.4%. Energy costs were down 7% while food costs were up 3.9%.

    It seems to me that raising the minimum wage will effect food costs since a lot of minimum wage employees work in the food service industry and places like grocery stores. Add to that an increase in energy costs due to the closing of pipelines resulting in higher transportation costs and potentially more reliance on imports where OPEC controls the cost, I’d guess that inflation will also go up.


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  16. #16
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    I completely understand the issues with a state or region being economically reliant on a single industry. When the crash happened in 2008 and unemployment rates went up, Elkhart Indiana was used as an example nationally. The problem there was, and still is, is they are primarily focused on the RV industry. The economy goes bad, so called “luxury items” are the first places people make cuts.


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  17. #17
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    You should have been in Florida where we're primarily focused on the tourist industry. The first place people cut expenses is vacation travel ... especially in their Indiana built motorhomes!

    Oh yeah, and Lynn was in the hotel business. She survived the recession, but not Covid.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  18. #18
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    I really can’t justify the number, where its $15 or $10 or whatever it should be. I do think it needs to be raised though. The part I think is a big negative for raising it is that a lot of those jobs will go to part time.
    the Walmart, work you 34 hours a week model where you get no bennies. That problem can be solved too, but nobody is doing it. Changing rules around that would put more money in people’s pockets IMo.

    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

  19. #19
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    Exactly. The minimum wage may be higher, but businesses will make do with fewer employees to meet the additional costs. For example, many of the McDonald’s around here have put in the kiosks for ordering and paying with plastic so they don’t have to have as many people working the counter.

    Isn’t the general goal of having a business making it profitable?


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  20. #20
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) airbud7's Avatar
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    Walmart tidbit:

    South Carolina
    • Walmart stores: 2 per 100,000 residents –​​​​​​​ 12th most (total: 123)
    • Sales associates: 790 per 100,000 working-age adults –​​​​​​​ 11th most (total: 32,682
    • Average hourly wage: $13.66 –​​​​​​​ 3rd lowest
    • State minimum wage: None
    • Cost of living: 8.9% less than national average –​​​​​​​ 18th lowest

    Indiana
    • Walmart stores: 2 per 100,000 residents –​​​​​​​ 22nd most (total: 127)
    • Sales associates: 765 per 100,000 working-age adults –​​​​​​​ 12th most (total: 40,470
    • Average hourly wage: $14.52 –​​​​​​​ 23rd highest
    • State minimum wage: $7.25 –​​​​​​​ 21st lowest
    • Cost of living: 10.7% less than national average –​​​​​​​ 12th lowest

    Florida

    • Walmart stores: 2 per 100,000 residents –​​​​​​​ 25th fewest (total: 384)
    • Sales associates: 600 per 100,000 working-age adults –​​​​​​​ 23rd fewest (total: 106,375
    • Average hourly wage: $14.09 –​​​​​​​ 15th lowest
    • State minimum wage: $8.56 –​​​​​​​ 23rd lowest
    • Cost of living: 0.6% more than national average –​​​​​​​ 15th highest

    Oklahoma

    • Walmart stores: 3 per 100,000 residents –​​​​​​​ 2nd most (total: 135)
    • Sales associates: 1,000 per 100,000 working-age adults –​​​​​​​ 3rd most (total: 30,528
    • Average hourly wage: $13.77 –​​​​​​​ 5th lowest
    • State minimum wage: $7.25 –​​​​​​​ 21st lowest
    • Cost of living: 11.6% less than national average –​​​​​​​ 8th lowest

  21. #21
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Well, this is "kind'a" related ... maybe not. I have no problem with raising the minimum wage in food service type industries, but what I believe should be totally revamped is the tipping policy. Pay a decent wage (raise prices to compensate if you have to) and scrap the stupid tipping policies we have in this country. It's gotten to the point, tipping is an obligation instead of a gratuity for good service, which IMHO, should not be a frigging option. We had a very large birthday party for a close friend last year (2019) and her birthday is New Year's Day. We had the party at a local restaurant on New Year's Eve. The service was the absolute shittiest service we've EVER received and after a few complaints, it only made matters worse. I envisioned the waitresses spitting in our food before serving it as "retribution". I guess maybe they were all pissed they had to work instead of partying with their friends. What made matters worse, this was NOT a cheap restaurant and the (pre-gratuity) tab was around $750-$800, if I remember correctly, for our relatively small group. To add insult to injury, they had a policy that anything over a party of 6, an 18% gratuity was automatically added to the bill. In MY eyes, a "gratuity" is VOLUNTARY and is given for exemplary service (did I say voluntarily?) Again, IMHO, restaurants should offer a competitive wage and the workers can decide whether they want to work for that wage, like any other business.

    What really gripes my ass is when traveling, many years ago, "tipping" was more a Western tradition. The problem is, it has spread due to many tourists' ignorance of local customs. I've traveled all over the world for most of my life and tipping was mainly confined to the U.S. and Canada. Through the years I've seen it become almost customary throughout most of Europe, mostly in the touristy sectors, and is now "unofficially" expected in many countries. Many European restaurants are now adopting "our" tradition and automatically adding a gratuity to the tab. I've been going to Thailand for 50 years and tipping was never done, nor expected ... these days, most anyplace you go frequented by tourists, they'll hold out their hands after simply opening a door for you!

    In China, S. Korea and especially Japan, (I've been to all three) tipping is actually considered rude. But, same as Thailand, once you hit the tourist hot-spots in these countries, it's becoming acceptable (except Japan for the most part). Once it becomes acceptable, like here, it soon becomes expected! Last I was there, it's not expected in Vietnam, but I did notice goofy tourists tipping anyway, so I'm sure the expectation will spread there also. Australia/New Zealand .... no tipping there but with the endless cruise ships rolling in and general tourism, it's becoming the norm in the tourist hot spots.

    It's a stupid custom and it all started here. The problem is, it's spreading. You're now expected to tip your taxi driver, your pizza delivery guy, the doorman at your hotel, your barber/hair dresser, ad nauseam. Years ago, when I subscribed to our local newspaper, our paper delivery guy had a "tip envelope" rolled into our newspaper soliciting a tip at Christmas (and yes, I called to complain, then found out the newspaper actually supplied the envelopes!) Last year we went to a fancy-schmancy restaurant in L.A. for dinner. The parking was valet only (no choice) and the valet fee was $25. Of course, the valet (drivers) also expected tips! Where is it going to end? Tip your doctor? Your dentist?

    Pay the going rate as a salary and dismantle our stupid tipping policies. It's frigging out of control IMHO.

    Curmudgeon rant over. You can return to your regularly scheduled bullshitting.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyDog View Post
    Exactly. The minimum wage may be higher, but businesses will make do with fewer employees to meet the additional costs. For example, many of the McDonald’s around here have put in the kiosks for ordering and paying with plastic so they don’t have to have as many people working the counter.

    Isn’t the general goal of having a business making it profitable?


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    Yes it is business’ goal to be profitable. Unless you’re a regulated utility, then you don’t have to worry, just raise your rates.
    But its not government’s job to make them profitable either. It’s government’s jobto take care of the people it represents and that includes business owners and employees. By design you can’t serve just one master. So anything government does regarding wages or regulations orapprovals for projects, its going to affect somebody negatively.
    BKB
    Viva Renaldo!

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