Well, you wanted to talk about issues. Here’s one.
Just a question first though so we’re all on the same page before we say if were before it or agin it in education:
What’s in it? What does it attempt to teach in other words?
I’ve read through it and made myself fmiliar. any takers?
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
Haven’t taken the time to study it.
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
I would say its interesting but its not. Ten essays I think. Still, it seems to be this decade’s ‘participation trophies’ issue for most conservatives.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
As I understand the critical race theory it's looking at current laws not from a right and wrong standpoint but rather from how it affects citizens in terms of equality based strictly by race. Kinda similar to the taxation of the Indian casinos.......different laws for different races based on cultural differences and/or either real or perceived mistreatment. In other words, murder would carry a different penalty for blacks than any other race. Hispanics would have their own set of laws, Muslims another.
Horse pucky IMO
I'm almost embarrassed to admit it, but I have buried my head in the sand since the last election. Not due to "sour grapes" ... I just got so sick and tired of politics, it finally pushed me over the edge. As I've done since Reagan, I voted for a blubbering idiot, ONLY because he was less of an idiot than his opponent. That's a sad state of affairs imho. But, I've gotten used to it. I'll go on a news binge before the next election and find out then where this country stands, in the meantime (and you can agree or disagree), my hands are tied and there's not a fucking thing I can do to change anything .... OTHER than how I run my personal life.
That's what I'm focusing on these days ... my personal life and making the best stab I can at enjoying what I have instead of notching up my blood pressure by following politics. I have not watched ANY cable "news" programs since the election and just catch bits and pieces of the local news from time to time. I was once a news junkie until "news" became nothing but political commentary and I'll admit, I got sucked into that whole line of bullshit, but still had the common sense to realize I was being fed buckets of garbage, no matter which network I watched.
Am I proud of being ignorant and clueless regarding politics? Not in the least ... and there's a modicum of guilt for remaining uninformed. Am I going to let it ruin my life? Nope, in fact, as far as I can tell, my daily demeanor has actually improved over the months and my b/p is lower and steadier (literally). That said, I do have news feeds that flash up on my phone and as I'm deleting them, I do catch the headlines or subject lines as they're being moved to my trash folder. I can't really "unsee" them. So, I've seen or heard the term "critical race theory" quite a few times but have absolutely no clue whatsoever what it is all about, but I'm sure there's some sort of idiocy involved.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
I hear you Jim, and I haven’t taken a hiatus from anything going on in the world, I don’t pay near as much attention to it as I did. But this issue isn’t about politics as much as it is about perspective.
The whole thing is written from a black person’s perspective and it carries with it, like any person’s perspective is, the biases that come along with it. They do raise some good points. And I’m not sure presenting another perspective of the same events in hstory is altering any facts. Nor is the 1619 Project about teaching kids a new version of history.
When I was in high school, my HISTORY teacher (i.e. the football coach) of all people had us read a Kurt Vonnegut novel ‘Slaughterhouse Five’ and do a book report on it. The book is about the allied fire bombing of the town of Dresden in WWII. The town contained only prisoners of war and stolen art treasures. It is told from the perspective of an allied POW named Billy Pilgrim. Its so happens Kurt Vonnegut was a POW in WWII in Dresden when it was bombed. It was banned and burned in many schools in the early 70’s (one of them up in North Dakota) by a bunch of people that never read it. Mopst people of my age that read it in high school will tell you to this day it was one of the most enlightening books they ever read.
It didn’t change or present any new facts about Dresden. It just told the story from a new perspective. I think this is what the 1619 Project really does.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
I guess if it influences the laws of the land, it falls into the political arena imo. Perspective can be a lot of things. Take my nut-bag brother (who just passed away a few months ago) for example ... from HIS perspective, the world owed him something and he's never held a job since his days in the Navy. Why was he in the Navy? Because when I returned home from the military, I found him still living at home as a totally worthless sack of human flesh. I personally dragged him, kicking and screaming, down to the recruiter's office and refused to let him leave until he'd signed on with the service of his choice. I was hoping they'd make a "man" out of him. He travelled the world aboard an aircraft carrier (USS John F. Kennedy - the original one) and I had hopes he'd make something of himself. What did he do throughout his Navy career? He was a frigging clerk at the ship's store ... a damned military version of a 7-11 clerk. He put in his 4 years and hadn't worked since, but instead, chose to be a total bum and was homeless until he found how to get the government to "take care of him". Even then, he considered the government a bunch of worthless thieves because they didn't do enough for him. He had a roof over his head (a gov't supplied apartment), free medical care, free gov't cell phone, free food (EBT), free transportation (gov't supplied bus pass) AND a gov't check every month in the form of Social Security even though he'd never really WORKED a day in his worthless life and contributed nothing into the system. Was he physically handicapped? Not in the least. Mentally? Yes, he was a fucking idiot, but although I forced him into a shrink's office at one point to have him mentally evaluated .... he passed himself off as "normal" with flying colors. Although I KNOW he was as nutty as a fruitcake, he was a frigging genius when it came to learning how to "work the system".
Problem is, once he started receiving that gov't check every month, he had no expenses because the gov't paid for EVERYTHING he had ... so he spent it all on booze and cigarettes. What killed him at the "young" age of 64 you ask? Alcoholism with a touch of cancer thrown in for good measure. Who'da thunk it?
My point is, from HIS perspective, although the government did EVERYTHING for him, he never thought they did enough and considered them a bunch of thieving crooks. I guess he's right in a way, those thieves took MY money (and yours) and gave it to HIM!
BTW, he had the last laugh, as I ended up paying his funeral costs! He was cremated and after I wrote the check to the funeral home, I walked out and left his ashes on the desk and told the clerk they could do whatever they want with them ... I didn't want them (and nobody else in the family did either). I DID ask the clerk what they'd do with them and she said the Funeral Director takes them "out to sea" for "burial". I asked what "out to sea" meant and was told federal law requires that ashes can only be scattered at least 3 nautical miles from the shore. She then pointed to a pile of identical boxes on top of a filing cabinet in her office and said my brother would join the pile awaiting disposal. I then thought, "What a cool scam!" Instead of throwing them into a dumpster, why not buy a boat and write it off as a "business expense"? Then, whenever you want to take a fishing trip, grab a couple of boxes from the top of the ol' filing cabinet and go fishing, take a few minutes to dump the boxes, then write the fishing trip off as a bonified business expense, along with fuel, insurance, maintenance and all boat payments, THEN pay yourself a day's pay and maybe a "helper" (fishing buddy) with a little check once you get back to the office!
In hindsight, they should have paid ME for leaving my brother there! Well, that's MY perspective anyway.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
Critical race theory? It’s a wedge issue in our ongoing culture wars. Hard pass.
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Raoul Duke
So, CD do you think it was created for that reason?
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
No, it’s being used for that.
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Last edited by Chicken Dinner; 06-14-2021 at 04:01 PM.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Raoul Duke
I don't know I'm qualified to join this conversation being that I'm an old, opinionated conservative southern white male IE a racist of the highest order. I can remember as a child when a black person wasn't even allowed to come in the grocery store. They would pass a list thru the back door which the grocer would fill then pass the bags out the back door to them. I never thought anything about it, it's just how things were in the early 60's in the south. Our school was integrated in 1971 when I was in the 8th grade. We were scared to death that they would kill all of us. Turns out that they were just as terrified of us. However, our basketball and football teams dramatically improved and that erased all the racial lines that separated us. We had zero racial problems in my four years of school that remained.
Having never been black or Hispanic and having no intention of becoming so, I can't understand what being black or hispanic involves. Having seen inequality I can certainly sympathize with those who have to deal with it. I do understand laziness, irresponsibility, and violence and have no use for any who practice such regardless of race, creed or gender.
having said all that, I'll say this (my own opinion): The law should be color blind but it isn't. The judicial system needs a massive common sense overhaul which is why we need me and Posthole appointed as universal Czar's immediately. Imo, our laws are divided more along economic lines than they are racial. Yelling racism gets people what they want faster. Peace and harmony doesn't sell headlines or garner votes. If we'd ban all the news for 90 days then most of our problems would go away
CRT
It's the teaching that white people are better than black people....I am serious!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1403297459992944642
good to see you AB, now we need you to drag Mudward back even if it's kicking and screaming
Hey AB! Good to see ya back.
I think there is a big issue with trying to look at historical times through a modern lens. But then again, let’s say for example if Borneo decided to adopt a democratic constitution that allowed only white males to vote. Do you think it’d get recognized as a legitimate democratic government? I’m not sure its wrong to have students think about that perspective during their education.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
America is full of spoiled little brats white, black, brown, always bitching that something ain't good enough!
I would love to see the internet crash and watch all these whiny f****** cry because they can't get on Facebook!
Regardless of your color it all comes down to parenting!....My daddy would tear my ass up if I acted like any of these fools do these days!....Mama would too!
Love y'all
You are so right about that!
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
The world could use another Martin Luther King jr
“Forgiveness is not an occasional act. It is a permanent attitude.”
“I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear.”
“Faith is taking the first step even when you don’t see the whole staircase.”
“Life’s most persistent and urgent question is, ‘What are you doing for others?'”
“Never succumb to the temptation of bitterness.”
"judge a man not by the color of his skin but the content of their character"
I don't care what color your skin is that man was brilliant!...full of love and family values...
Critical Race Theory wants to tear everything he did down and start again...teach you that white people are better than black people and there's nothing you can do about it!...Whiteness they're calling it!...WTF?...Now I got to feel bad just because I'm white?...I'm sorry but my emotions do not go that far, I will not ball up in a ball and start crying just because I'm a white Man!
They can all go f*** themselves!....actually, I think most of them already do.
Last edited by airbud7; 06-14-2021 at 10:03 PM.
AB, NONE of that is in the 1619 Project. Not one word, not one idea, not one conclusion that the reader can ever arrive at.
Read it, why don’t you?
BKB
This is one of the better posts I’ve seen on here. I’ll vote you and Posty to be Race Czars any day. I don’t disagree that a lot of the disparity in legal consequences is based on economics and poverty. But, I’ll throw throw this out there for consideration as it compares the poverty rates of whites vs. blacks.Originally Posted by quercus alba
https://www.kff.org/other/state-indi...2:%22asc%22%7D
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Last edited by Chicken Dinner; 06-15-2021 at 10:29 AM.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Raoul Duke
do I have to change something about me?...if so why?
PS: my black friends are doing well...
My criticism wasn’t of you, AB. I wouldn’t have you changeca thing!
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
I've tried to read about and understand CRT and from what I've gathered I can describe it in two words - Whitey bad. In three words - Whitey always bad. Succinct enough for yah.
I had a meeting end early and found this article to be fairly balanced. It’s a little education focused in the end due to the type of publication Ed week is, but also more academic in nature as well.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/wh...attack/2021/05
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Raoul Duke
I don't know all the ends and outs and I don't really want to. I was born into poor hard working family, Picking cucumbers by hand for 25 cents an hour and hour, hauling hay for 3 cents a bale split 3 ways, carrying a hand sprayer thru a cotton field for 50 cents an hour, living in the poverty range my entire adult life, put three boys thru college more due to their hard work than anything I did, worked shift work in a plywood mill for 26 years while my boys mostly grew up without out me, Got laid off when I was 50 and went to work at Walmart first unloading trucks then moved to maintenance (IE cleaning bathrooms and mopping floors) finally ended my career working at the courthouse in maintenance (IE mopping and cleaning bathrooms again) and I never held out my hand or took a nickle I didn't earn. Still don't, my SSA and retirement are less than 1800 bucks a month. If that's white privilege then you can have it
I suspect that most people on here can say pretty much the same thing. No doubt that I gained a few opportunities that the minorities didn't have but not in the last 40 years that I've been able to see, in fact affirmative action probably hurt me more than once but I'm not whining, I worked hard and taught my boys that hard work is nothing to be ashamed of and I don't stay awake at night suffering from white guilt and I'm certainly not going to apologize for the color of my skin. I learned a long time ago that life isn't fair for most of us but you just have to do the best you can with what you have to work with.
I thought we weren't suppose to prejudge what a person's privilege, intent, or prejudge in general about a person?
Thank you for that QA. I think most of us here came from a different era, when we realized we had to actually work in order to survive. I grew up relatively poor, but TBH, I never even realized it until I became an adult and looked back at my childhood. My dad worked two jobs most of my life as a kid, he'd finish his day job, come home for supper, then head out to his night job. We had 5 kids in my family and when I was about 13 or so, my best buddy's mother came down with cancer and died. Her last words to my mom was begging her to please take care of her son. His dad was an abusive alcoholic and there were many nights my buddy would tap on my bedroom window at 3:00 am and I'd let him in to spend the night at our house (we shared a bed). It sounds weird now, but seemed normal then. His dad came home drunk EVERY night (he owned a little neighborhood bar) and would many times throw my buddy out of the house when he stumbled in after closing time or would get so abusive, his mom would shuffle my buddy out the door and tell him to run down to our house while she handled the "old man". (they lived about 4 houses up the street from us) His dad would be thrown in jail immediately in present day times, but back then, those things just weren't talked about. When his mom died, we took him in permanently and his dad never so much as came looking for him. To this day, he's known as my (our) brother. When I look back, it's incredible that my parents took him in without question and there was never a complaint. He grew up as one of us. I look back and realize how much of a financial burden my parents took on, but as a kid, I thought nothing of it. When anybody asks about our family, it's always said there were 8 of us, my parents, 4 boys and 2 girls. Later in life, questions would sometimes arise with friends as he had a different last name, but we'd many times just ignore it or sometimes say he was "adopted". He called my mom and dad ... "mom and dad" until the day they died. We are still very close and still talk a few times a week, as brothers. (he presently lives in California) I can't imagine the financial burden that must have been, but us kids were never made aware of it and dad just worked a little harder as he had an extra mouth to feed. I couldn't count the times we'd come home from school and find the electricity had been cut off. Dad ALWAYS said, "Oooops, I forgot to pay the light bill!" It would always be back on within a day or two, but knowing what I know now, I'd have to assume he was always probably a month or two behind before they'd cut the power off. After I was grown and on my own, I also realized many of my friends were from normal, middle class families. I grew up thinking we were middle class and they were rich!
I learned my work ethic from my dad I suppose. When school started, we'd get ONE pair of new shoes. If we didn't take care of them, we were screwed! I'd get a couple pair of generic blue jeans (no Levis) and those were to last me all year. My grandmother made many of our clothes, dresses for my sisters and shirts for us boys. It never bothered me much until I entered Jr. H/S and realized how dorky my shirts looked. At 10-years old, I started selling baby turtles I'd catch in the area lakes for some spending money. Thinking back, it was probably illegal, but that thought never crossed my mind as a kid. I never owned a new bicycle and all my bikes were built from old misc. parts I'd dig out of the dumpster behind the Schwinn store in town. When I was 12, I begged the owner of that same Schwinn store to hire me during the Christmas rush so I'd have money to buy Christmas gifts. I was hired on as a "Wipe!" I was on Christmas vacation from school and worked all day and into the night (9-10:00 pm). There was a crew putting bicycles together for the Christmas rush and when they'd finish one, they'd yell "WIPE"! Then I'd run over, roll the bike to my little corner, wipe it all down, clean it up, get it spotless, then roll it out to the showroom floor. By that time, I'd hear "WIPE!" ... and start on my next project. My "brother" and I both worked as Wipes and were paid 13-cents/hour for our effort. That was also the year I started my own yard service and had weekly accounts mowing people's yards ... I'd mow, rake, edge, trim hedges ... whatever it took. I never will forget the day I'd saved up enough cash to have my dad take me to Sears where I bought a GAS mower! That old reel type mower was a LOT of work for a 12 year old kid, but I didn't complain. I ended up with 15-20 regular customers and would take care of their yards on a weekly rotation. I also saved enough money to buy a brand spanking new, Schwinn 10-speed bicycle from the same Schwinn store where I'd salvage parts for my previous rides and worked through my whole Christmas vacation in 6th grade! I was in high cotton when I started Jr. H/S riding a shiny, new Schwinn 10-speed bike!
At 15, I turned my business over to a friend of mine as we were moving away. We're still great friends to this day and he lives close by. We often talk about those old times. At 15, I landed a job at the local Cadillac/Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer. (Vicksburg, Mississippi) I parked cars, swept floors, did whatever was asked of me and I suppose it was my first "real" job. The weird part was, I was even picking up customer's cars and delivering them back after being serviced and all I had was a LEARNER'S PERMIT!! (nobody ever asked if I had a "real" driver's license)
We moved again and I again started working after school and during the summers at the local Cadillac dealer (Memphis, TN), again, starting out by parking cars, sweeping floors, whatever was asked of me. Years later, (Hollywood. CA) I became a mechanic's helper at a Cadillac dealer, then became a Dispatcher (assigning cars to various mechanics and keeping the flow of cars moving through the Service Dept.), then moved into a Shop Foreman position, which led to a Service Advisor position, which eventually led to being asked to become the Service Manager over the complete Service Department. Once I had that experience under my belt, I was asked to accept the Service & Parts Director's position at the oldest and largest Cadillac dealership in Los Angeles. I managed the complete operation and had a Service Manager and Parts Manager under me. Other than taking a 4 year hiatus when Vietnam interrupted my life, the car business became my career until it completely burned me out and I started my own business ... for the first time since my little yard service at 12-years old.
The whole point is, I .... WE (as far as I can tell from what I know of most everyone here) all grew up in an era where things were not handed to us and we knew if we wanted or needed anything, we had to actually WORK for it, or do without! Something happened along the line and it's a whole different ballgame these days. If someone wants something now, they expect someone else to hand it to them. I don't care if you're black, white, brown or purple ... if you're willing to get off your ass and WORK for what you want, I don't think you'd have a problem. Trust me, I know from my management days as well as my days as a business owner, finding someone who is willing to put in an honest day's work for a decent paycheck, is harder than I'd ever have imagined. I guess I always expected my employees to have the same work ethic I had during my working life ... but it's a RARE thing to find these days. Kids are looking for the instant gratification they were fed while growing up and expect to be immediately handed a 100K/yr. job right out of high school .... or at minimum, to be started at $15/hr. to flip burgers at MacD's! Think about it, that would be a $32K/year job, w/bennies if full time. (The per capita income in this little town is $28,000/yr.)
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
Good read Thump!...Thanks
I’m not sure how we got from Critical Race Theory to work and laziness but I take your meaning that anything the races have gotten, either white or black or brown, they’ve all gotten what they deserved.
Did I get that right Thumper? Working for a living is no stranger to anyone here I don’t think.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
For the first part of your post, I can pretty much go along with that statement ... to a point. I'm not talking the 50's here, I'm talking about NOW. We can debate it 'til the cows come home and I doubt many minds will change here, which is fine. CRT has been kicked around now for over 45 years, the thoughts of a bunch of dingleberries at Good Hunting isn't going to change anything. IMHO (emphasis on the M), if you want to WORK to get ahead, the opportunity is there for most EVERYONE. Discrimination is a nasty thing that's everywhere and probably always will be, but it's not insurmountable. Lynn's mom is afraid to go out in L.A. now due to the b/s going on with elderly Asian attacks. Lynn was working for a food broker a few years back and called on the local VFW here in town to demo some food options for the grill they had there. Some old coot WWII vet was sitting at the bar and told the manager if he buys anything from a fucking Jap, he'd boycott the place. Lynn came home crying her eyes out.
The odd thing is, that old coot happened to be black! WTF??? As far as I can tell, it appears the assaults against elderly Asians ... at least from the videos I've seen ... are predominately perpetrated by blacks. Prejudice is NOT a one-sided thing as many try to make it out to be. Personally, I'm sick and tired of being blamed for others failures.
As for the second part of your above post, I think I addressed that sentiment in my final paragraph and agree with you wholeheartedly.
The whole point is, I .... WE (as far as I can tell from what I know of most everyone here) all grew up in an era where things were not handed to us and we knew if we wanted or needed anything, we had to actually WORK for it, or do without!
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
I don’t think any of the things you mentioned though are part of the question at hand. The questions at hand, and there are two of them are: should a treatise on black history written by black people have a place in our history at all? It seems like because us white folks disagree with what they have to say they shouldn’t have a voice at all in our history? the secondquestion is does anyone think they’d rather have their state legislature decide the school curricula for public schools instead of teachers and education professionals? It really seems like its in vogue to hate teachers and public education.My own has stood me well in life, socount me as a lifetime supporter of both.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
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