The new breed of gearheads.

[Thumper]

A "new hire" at the local tire store. He was told he could spray a soapy solution on a tire to check it for leaks!


tire leak.jpg

[Hombre]

What a dummy. Everyone knows you have to spray it on the inside or it won't leak through.

[Thumper]

What a dummy. Everyone knows you have to spray it on the inside or it won't leak through.

You dufe! That's only for bias ply tires ... the above appears to be a radial.

[HideHunter]

..

[Chicken Dinner]

That helps explain why we have a generation that McDonald’s won’t even trust to count change.


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[Thumper]

But are told by the government that their employees are worth $15/hr. minimum.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Y’all sound like a bunch of codgers sitting down at the VFW.

BKB

[Penguin]

The best and the brightest... that's why I first started working on cars right there.

Will

[Chicken Dinner]

I’ve got a question for you true gear heads. I had both my cars in for inspections, oil changes and tire rotations this past week. One at the local tire place as that’s where I bought the tires and the rotation was free and the other at the dealer as I was at the 5 year mark. First place said I needed new rear break pads and rotors as the pads were down ti 1/32”. I asked if the rotors were warped or damaged and they said no. But, they recommend replacing the rotors every time they do the pads. The dealer wanted to change the pads (and rotors!) because I was down to 30% on a vehicle I drive less than 5,000/year. Am I missing something here? Are you really supposed to change the rotors and replace the pads before they’re worn out and/or damaged? I told them both to go pound sand. But, am curious what you guys think.


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[Thumper]

TBH, the first time I heard a similar recommendation, I called foul. Then, after some research, I found out I’m a dinosaur in a field where I was once considered an expert of sorts. In MY day, we’d “turn” the rotors with a brake job. That would not only true them up, but provide a non-glazed surface to prevent squealing, etc. After my bout of calling a dealer a bunch of crooks, I found out rotors have been thinned and lightened so much on modern cars, that on many models, a rotor replacement is now pretty much normal with a brake job. I was pretty shocked actually as I knew rotors are pretty expensive. BUT … I was back to the dinosaur era … the rotors are pretty cheap (comparatively) for the models that normally have them replaced with a brake job. The industry is much different from my gear-head days. I don’t know nuttin’ any mo’.

[Chicken Dinner]

Don’t feel bad as I guess I’m a dinosaur as well. I felt pretty sure they were trying to rip me off.


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[BarryBobPosthole]

Replacing the rotor just depends on the wear. I did my own brake jobs on my old Chevy truck and replaced the rotors once, because they were grooved. Likely by the wear indicator. Seriously, you can do both but I have never been able to justify the cost of a brake job so I usually do them myself.
BKB

[Thumper]

It’s been a while since I embarrassed myself, but I believe when I was researching the subject, it varied a bit between makes and models. Some might be able to be turned once, some not at all. I really don’t remember the details, but it’s a whole different ballgame from what I grew up with. But, a lot of things have changed. “Mechanics” these days just replace stuff. The days of overhauling or rebuilding things is ancient history, unless you’re working on a classic.

[Thumper]

Replacing the rotor just depends on the wear. I did my own brake jobs on my old Chevy truck and replaced the rotors once, because they were grooved. Likely by the wear indicator. Seriously, you can do both but I have never been able to justify the cost of a brake job so I usually do them myself.
BKB

Key words … my OLD Chevy.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I miss that truck. If I lived in the country I’m afraid I would do what my parents have always done that confounds me. When they wear out a vehicle, it becomes a ‘grover’. They have what used to be the corner of. pasture where a lifetime of worn out cars and trucks are parked. Its turned into a grove over time. I actually have an old 67 chevy truck, John is his name, parked there too with a fairly large oak tree growing up through the bed.
Its an eyesore but they’ll never do anything about it. MY brother even talked to someone about coming out and hauling all of them off for nthing and the old man wouldn’t have it.
But if I had a grove, my old chevy truck might be out in it. Loved that truck.

BKB

[Penguin]

These guys pretty much covered it.

One thing I'd add: If you change rotors buy the good stuff. No NAPA or AutoZone crap. OEM or the expensive heavy duty stuff. Yes it costs 3 or 4 times as much but inside 100k miles you'll come out way ahead.

Will

[Thumper]

Figured I'd post this article from the net, just as an educational tool, since we're all (except for Willy) pretty much "old school" these days when it comes to cars. I know we all know how to do net searches, but this place is so slow, I may as well soak up some bandwidth. If you're lazy or hate trying to read a bunch of gobbletygook on a little cell phone screen, just skip down to the last sentence.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/why-...ge-brakes-pads

Why You Need New Brake Rotors When You Change Brake Pads

No, your mechanic is not trying to cheat you. Here’s why professional shops of all sizes now include new rotors with a “brake job.”

New brakes for daily drivers are never a fun maintenance or repair. The best one can hope for is that the car will stop just like it did before the brakes were worn out. In the past, the typical way to do a “brake job” on a vehicle with disc brakes was to machine the old rotors flat as part of the job. The result of this is that your bill would include labor and pads. If you have recently had a mechanic do a brake job on your car, crossover, or truck, you may be surprised to see that new rotors (discs) were included. No, you were not taken advantage of. In fact, quite the opposite.

It’s Less Expensive To Change Rotors Than Machine Them
The reason that mechanics began to swap out old rotors for new is pricing. Machining a rotor requires special tools and shop time. With aftermarket rotors dropping in cost below the cost of this shop time and tool costs, it became more sensible to simply swap them.

It’s Not Possible To Machine Rotors Indefinitely
If rotors were always able to be machined the change in culture may never have occurred. However, with weight being such a focus area of modern cars, manufacturers now make rotors as thin and lightweight as possible. Normal brake operation cuts grooves in the rotors and makes them thinner. Eventually, they cannot be safely machined anymore because they are too thin for proper braking duty. Mechanics began to find that this occurred more and more often on the first brake job. Brian Mushnick, the owner and mechanic at Brian’s Garage near Boston clarifies this point saying, “New rotors are produced at barely over minimum thickness. Any wear at all makes the rotors undersized and not eligible for turning.” Lightweighting has its costs as well as its benefits.

Mechanics’ Opinions On Changing Rotors
Torque News reached out to a few trusted mechanics to get their opinion of changing rotors rather than machining. Mark McMullen owner and mechanic at G&M Services west of Boston says for him, it became more cost-effective to swap the rotors. “We machined rotors back in the old days, but the labor cost and the costs we had to add to pay for the tool and its maintenance equaled the cost of new rotors.” Mark also explained why professionals don’t do half the job. He explained that a shadetree mechanic can simply swap out the pads and leave the rotors untouched. Mark says a pro won’t do that for many reasons, but one is that it often fails and the rotors warp shortly after the job or the brakes make noise.

Tom Daley of Daley Service in Norfolk, Mass. has been doing brake jobs for decades. At this modern shop, the old rotor turning machine is long gone. Tom explained, “Rotors are inexpensive and they are no longer made of high-quality steel. One brake pad life is all they are worth.”

The next time you have a brake job don’t be surprised to see rotors included on the work order. This is not a case of your mechanic trying to upsell you. Rather, it is the current best practice and also the most cost-effective way to do the job.

[Thumper]

And CD, I apologize for going off on a little bit of a tangent. Your main question was, pretty much, to ask if it's normal to replace your brakes before they're worn out. The one car where you're at 1/32" is definitely due. The "low mileage car" at 30% can probably slide due to your driving habits with that one. I suppose you could always take the mileage you've put on those brakes and do the math to see approx. when you'd be due for replacement, but you're pretty close since many shops recommend replacing at 20% left. You're at the Sup2U point I think.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I guess I’m just dumb, but I never even think about a brake job until I hear the indicators growling.

BKB

[Penguin]

I'm kind of.... mid school.

From the second section: "The reason that mechanics began to swap out old rotors for new is pricing. Machining a rotor requires special tools and shop time. With aftermarket rotors dropping in cost below the cost of this shop time and tool costs, it became more sensible to simply swap them."

And the key phrase in there is "aftermarket rotors".

If you want to get a brake job that lasts (at least for either pickup sized autos or brake heavy urban driving) then avoid aftermarket rotors like leprosy. I mean it and I speak from experience. My OEM rotors and brakes lasted 107k miles on my full sized Silverado. From that time forward I never got more than 10k out of any of the aftermarket stuff. Hell I had one set put on in September and they had grooved, pitted, warped, and bubbled by March.

And now Betsy gets AC-Delco rotors and pads. Period.

I've heard from some of my 4 wheeling buddies that some of the more expensive aftermarket heavy duty stuff is great and I believe them. But they don't sell that stuff at AutoZone and you won't get it from your typical brake shop. TBH I would rather get used OEM stuff from a junk yard than put most of the typical over the counter stuff on.

Will

[Thumper]

I guess I’m just dumb, but I never even think about a brake job until I hear the indicators growling. BKB

I have my tires rotated every 5000 miles, so they always check my brakes at that time. I can usually catch them before the "squeakers" hit the rotors. But, TBH ... I hardly ever keep a car long enough to need brakes, but I think that may change now. We've decided to hang onto Lynn's Highlander and she's one of those who hits her brakes anytime she sees a brake light go on 12 miles ahead of her! I always ask her wtf she's "stopping" for and she says, "traffic is slowing down ahead of me!" I always tell her it's just another nervous Nellie who hits their brakes every 20 seconds for no reason. If I'm in the fast lane, I usually don't touch the brakes until I see the nose drop and the ass end go up on the car in front of me.

[airbud7]

Most vehicles in the last 20 plus years have hubs and this is the reason rotors are so cheap... No bearings or race/ the rotor is loose the second you loosen the lug nuts... Old rotors included the bearing, race and the wheel studs all in one (heavy)... The last time I packed a wheel bearing with grease was a good 20+ years ago.

[Thumper]

Same as Buckrub on his boat trailers.

[airbud7]

Same as Buckrub on his boat trailers.

Why didn't cars/trucks have bearing Buddies back in the day!

[Chicken Dinner]

Thanks fellas. This discussion is super helpful. I guess I’m ending up in the same place as Thump. If the answer is to replace the rotors anydamnway, why not just wait until the indicator starts squealing?


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[Thumper]

Then, if you wanna be super cheap, you can bend the indicator tabs back away from the rotors and squeeze a few extra miles out'ta them without all that distracting noise!

Seriously, I'm pretty much with P-hole, the wear indicators (squeakers) were designed to let you know when your pads are due to be replaced. Why not use them for what they were designed to do? Like the low fuel light on a fuel gage. Of course, you really don't lose anything by filling the tank before getting that low, but to replace brake pads "early", you're just throwing away those extra miles and opening your wallet before it's necessary IMHO.

Of course, many feel differently and feel safer changing them out earlier than later. Kind'a like the "wear bar" indicators on your tires. How many put off replacing tires until the indicators are exposed all the way across the tread? To each his own I guess. Ask three people, you'll get three opinions.

[airbud7]

Then, if you wanna be super cheap, you can bend the indicator tabs back away from the rotors and squeeze a few extra miles out'ta them without all that distracting noise!

hahaha!....I did that shit when I was younger!....more than once I tell ya!

The fact that you knew that is proof that you're an old time mechanic.

I am seriously thinking about doing part time mechanic work again, I am almost 60 and it's still easy to me. I changed the front struts on a Kia for a good buddy of mine and it was easy, I took my time and it was still only about hour and a half job and I actually enjoyed it... Saved him a lot of money.

[Chicken Dinner]

Then, if you wanna be super cheap, you can bend the indicator tabs back away from the rotors and squeeze a few extra miles out'ta them without all that distracting noise!

Seriously, I'm pretty much with P-hole, the wear indicators (squeakers) were designed to let you know when your pads are due to be replaced. Why not use them for what they were designed to do? Like the low fuel light on a fuel gage. Of course, you really don't lose anything by filling the tank before getting that low, but to replace brake pads "early", you're just throwing away those extra miles and opening your wallet before it's necessary IMHO.

Of course, many feel differently and feel safer changing them out earlier than later. Kind'a like the "wear bar" indicators on your tires. How many put off replacing tires until the indicators are exposed all the way across the tread? To each his own I guess. Ask three people, you'll get three opinions.

Thump, you’re definitely the kind of guy that understands my idea of a “value proposition”!


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[Penguin]

Hey, those gourmet Thai dinners and the drinks with the little umbrellas ain't gonna pay for themselves.

Will

[BarryBobPosthole]

Thump, you’re definitely the kind of guy that understands my idea of a “value proposition”!


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Haha my tire wear indicators were many times when the cords wore through. Then it was time for another $10 recap!

BKB