This isn't a debate on vaccinations, let's start there. Anyway, just heard that Rhode Island has went from firing unvaccinated health care workers to allowing Healthcare workers who test positive for covid to return to work. Can this be true.
This isn't a debate on vaccinations, let's start there. Anyway, just heard that Rhode Island has went from firing unvaccinated health care workers to allowing Healthcare workers who test positive for covid to return to work. Can this be true.
Since the ham handed clueless bunch of politicians have gotten out of the way and turned it back over to the state level (as it should have been in the first place) you're going to see a lot more of this type of thing. We're going to have to deal with this as best we can. Mask up, sanitize, social distance and keep on keeping on. I think vaccinations are helpful but exactly to what extent we don't know yet. Poke or don't poke that's up to the individual, The human race has survived a lot worse than this and we'll outlast this one too.
unfortunately, idiots seem to be the most resilient
I saw this too. They’re so short on staff in some places they are having to let asymptomatic workers that have tested positive care for covid patients in hospitals and nursing homes.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
My opinion is that the poke will probably prevent a serious case/hospitalization, but not all cases.
A co-worker of my wife who was fully vaccinated with the booster just recently tested positive. As far as I know she just had symptoms like a bad cold.
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
I get my third poke this Friday and not once, NOT ONCE, have I gotten so much as a reach around.
If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.
Out of a family of 16, the first one in the family is one of my 8 grand kids (10 years old) who was fully vax'd came down with it yesterday, so far nothing more than a fever and other small acks and pains.
Because she tested positive, she's quarantined for the next 10 days, not the 5 as stated on TV, but what the State has in place for school kids.
The whole family was here on my birthday (12-31) out of the 16, 13 are fully vax'd, one DIL doesn't believe in the Vax, so she won't let her kids get it, my son the LEO, got his through work, so we're hoping she's the only one. Stay turned.
The older I get, the better I was. I also forget my password and have to have Len reset it for me
Originally Posted by DeputyDog
I think you're right DD and we should be making a bigger deal of this. The media seems to still be stuck in the fear mode, while I think we should show the positive side of a illness that has mutated towards less severe symptoms.
Everyone knows the 4th poke is the reach around poke.
I saw this article and thought it was interesting.
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horow...ling-narrative
The highlights were:
96% of all Omicron cases in Germany among vaccinated.
Omicron among vaccinated outpacing unvaccinated by 28% in Ontario.
In Denmark, 89.7% of all Omicron cases were among fully vaccinated.
Just 25% of the Omicron hospitalizations in the U.K. are unvaccinated.
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Last edited by DeputyDog; 01-04-2022 at 05:27 PM.
"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
One thing is sure: Our view of our medical elite has changed (for a lot of people) and it won't unchange.
I have been absolutely convinced for a long time that trust is THE most important thing that holds a society together. What I see around me now is a society unravelling because of a lack of trust in our institutions and "experts". And not because of an overly suspicious citizenry but because those running the nation have proven themselves untrustworthy.
When you have to use the data from other nations to get an honest take on our current condition? With the most expensive and extensively funded health system in the world?
It's a mess.
I don't know what to believe anymore, but when it comes to health issues like we're facing now, I really don't see how there could be any political advantage for the government to lie to us. Unless it's for some dumbass like Trump to fight it to win praise from ignorant rednecks in case he decides to run again. Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes here and I don't want to paint with a broad brush, but I recently lost a couple of very close friends (I posted about it at the time) whose whole family of anti-vaxers died of covid. They got together every Sunday for a big Sunday meal and were a close-knit family. The ONLY survivor in that whole group was my (ex-hunting/fishing) buddy's wife who is a hospital nurse and was required to be vaccinated. As I said, that was a few months ago and I saved this article at that time. Things may have changed a bit, but I think it still makes a valid point.
1) Unvaccinated people are about 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, according to a CDC study released Tuesday.
2) The new study also found that unvaccinated people were nearly five times more likely to be infected with Covid than vaccinated people.
3) The data is in line with comments from federal and state health officials, who have been saying for weeks that millions of unvaccinated Americans have been putting themselves at serious risk.
We can argue it 'til the cows come home, but I just don't want anyone to question where I stand on the issue. The above statements should make it plain to see. I've been in a few "arguments" with close friends who refuse to get vaccinated and continuously spew anti-vaxer b/s. After a while I get to the point I just want to reach over and bitch-slap 'em.
Right or wrong, I'm entitled to my opinion, but I also realize everyone else is too (even though they are wrong).
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
And while I'm on my soapbox, here's a "year-end summary". IMHO, since vaccines are available to all at no cost, if you're unvaccinated and admitted into the hospital with Covid, you should be held accountable for all your medical costs for being a fucking knucklehead.
Going without a coronavirus vaccine can have an impact on healthcare spending in the US, a Peterson-Kaiser Family Foundation Health System Tracker report on unvaccinated COVID-19 patients found.
Based on their estimates, coronavirus hospitalizations among unvaccinated patients cost $13.8 billion just in the six month timeframe from June 2021 through November 2021.
Why should I have to pay for their dumbassery?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
I think it is more of a timing issue at first Jim. And after a while if they don't adjust it becomes something more.
Looking at the data from other countries I was able to see, without reservation, the following things which were denied but then later grudgingly admitted:
The vaccinated could get covid.
They could get sick.
They could transmit it.
I can give you links showing our leaders denying these things months after the argument was over and they had been conclusively proven true.
Now they are denying that the vaccine provides little protection against serious illness and is causing damage to some who receive it. Particularly young men. Other nations with real health systems have acknowledged these things and moved on.
Why? Have you taken a look at where the people running these agencies worked before taking their positions, where they go afterward, and who sponsors their research? Why? I can give you hundreds of billions of reasons.
This thing doesn't work. It's a flop. Hell I'm an engineer/scientist. I've had shit I tried go sideways. But I never was so demented as to try to redefine efficiency or horsepower to keep from admitting I had failed. They did so.... Openly and on record with the definitions of the words vaccine and immunity.
Scientists aren't lawyers and to try and win arguments by using their tactics is disgraceful. Silencing other qualified scientists who disagree with you is even worse.
I encourage everyone to just take a look at what other nations with real health care systems are finding out about this thing. Either we have a populace reacting totally differently to this virus or our officials are wrong. Again.
Then the same applies to the smoker who gets lung cancer, the obese person who has diabetes or a heart problem, the person who gets in a car wreck driving drunk or speeding, etc.
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
And another thing: After the vax was approved I offered a bet that it would never be made available until the pharm companies got legal immunity for any harm it caused.
Months later and still not one single dose of non emergency authorized vax has seen one single arm. There's a reason for this.
So I'll ask again: Anyone want to take that bet?
I expected pushback and argument, but I know I'm right so there is no valid argument.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
Why on earth would I want to get a vaccine that didn’t have some sort of approval? Yes, health businesses are very wary of liability, and if you know any doctors you know its with good reason.
DD, our numbers the US don’t add up at all with those published in the Blaze. I’ll go with our data and not worry about Denmark.
One thing I don’t understand is all of the flat out hatred for CDC, WHO, FDA, AMA, name any organization at all. Fauci is villified without any good reason I can see. People claim to be confused byall of the advice they’re gettingand blame the government. Its pretty fucking simple: get the vaccine or don’t. Live with the consequences. End of story. Quit with all the political horseshit that’s all dressed up as medical truths.
Its not covid that has me fatigued. Its all the yammering about a very simple issue. Either way you go, I hope the worse, whatever the fuck that mght be, doesn’t happen to you.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
It's easy to simply it the way you have. It's also easy to simplify the conflicting information we've been told all along. There's plenty enough bullshit to choke on from both sides of this argument.
I know, let's freak out and scare the shit out of people about getting a booster vaccine to protect against a variant that has no symptoms and a zero percent death rate. The message has changed so much, so frequently, so inconsistently, for so many different political, scientific, social and other reasons that it is very reasonable to start following the money and looking for the assholes. Good friend of mine used to throw out a similar quote
I know you know what you know and respect you what you know and your opinions and I also know you well enough to know you know this shit too. You know what I mean, and don't even try to not know what I know you know that you know and won't say that you know and understand. You know?
If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.
All I know is that that 17 people I personally know have contracted Covid in the last two and a half weeks. 16 of the 17 are antivaxers. 2 of them are repeat offenders.
Take that for what it's worth
I think everyone is going to get it at some point, vaccinated or not. The question is how serious a case. The virus is not going to go away and it will co to ie to mutate into new “variants”.
I’m to the point that I don’t care if (random numbers here) 6000 people tested positive when 5500+ had cold-like, or no symptoms at all.
We didn’t panic like this over the flu and so far, there have been just under 1600 flu cases and three deaths in Indiana.
https://www.in.gov/health/erc/files/...-2021-2022.pdf
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
I have a young niece who is a travel nurse and she’s worked in Colorado, Seattle, Charleston, and Cary, NC all in covid ICU over thepast two years. She’s now back in Colorado but insists now that she won’t go near a covid patient. Ask her or any health care workers in the front lines the past two years and I doubt you’ll come away thinking it s much like the flu. My niece will deal with ptsd from this for years. Its very real, whether all of this faux confusion about what we need to do is or not. Sorry, but I always get pissed when I think of her service to people in a very tough job gets minimized like its just all a big media hoax.
It ain’t.
BkB
Viva Renaldo!
I’ve had family members get it and become very, very sick and also had a couple that died from Covid complications. I know how real it is.
My point is that as each new variant comes around, the powers that be, whether governmental or media hype it up to the point of instilling panic when in reality fewer people are dying from Omicron than Delta, and fewer from Delta than the original strain. I know you don’t care about info from other countries but I saw a study from China that reported that close to 80% of positive Omicron cases were asymptomatic.
I’m by no means an “anti-vaxxer”, everyone in my family is what is considered fully vaccinated by the current definition plus my wife and I have gotten the booster.
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
Yeah well this isn't the same virus we dealt with two years ago. And tptb were warned of this before the vaccine was even rolled out. Of course the people who warned us were disappeared from the discourse for doing so. Imagine that.
And the numbers say without one doubt whatsoever that this vaccine does nothing, NOTHING, to keep you from getting the current virus, passing it along, or going to the hospital. There has been a definite lessening of deaths it caused... that has waned a good bit as time went on but has hung on longer than the initial protections for mild cases that failed after a handful of months.
You want to know how good the boosters protect you? Look at the Israeli data. They're on round 4 now.
Just look at the data. Ignore that malignant dwarf Fauci and just look at the honest data from real health systems. Israel and the UK have shown to be the most honest and straightforward. Listen to those who have been right ignore those who have been consistently wrong.
It really is that simple.
That’s the kicker isn’t it? People are getting fired from their jobs for not having the vaccine yet the vaccine is proving to be ineffective against the new variations of the virus.
I saw where the Mayo Clinic let go 700 employees for not being vaccinated, the military is purging people left and right also.
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
I know Dog... I feel ashamed when I think of how these people showed up and helped take care of us when people were dying and everyone with a lick of sense was scared shitless. Hell of a thank you huh?
You can believe global warming is real but that some people are using it as an excuse to get rich off of ineffective "green" tech.
I do.
You can also believe Covid is real but that some people are using it as an excuse to get rich off of ineffective medical tech. And to gather and keep power.....
Will
I guess we live in different worlds. In my world 90% of the serious hospitalizations are from unvaccinated people. Yes, mild covid is more prevalent with omicron cases, efficacy in the vaccinated drops down to near 50%. But look at hospitalizations. The vaccines do protect from serious disease. At least in my world they do. And the dataalso shows younger unvaccinated people are dying.
As far as the military goes, there is no argument whatsoever. All the branches are reporting north of 97% vaccination rates. And no, you have no freedom of choice about vaccinations in the military. The AF has discharged about 27 people, the Marines 103. Theother branches are just beginning to report. I suppose that left and right. But its a non issue. Get the vax or get out has always been the policy.There’s no way to maintain readinessotherwise.
And Willy, i hear you about the money being made off of covid. How much do you think has been made from opioids? How much from diabetes treatments? How much from epi pens? But that’s capitalism. Lets protect our medical system from mean old socialism so those companies can gouge us. After all, y’all have said all along that without those incentives, there wouldn’t be theresearch needed for our medicines to be the best.
And yet, we get a vaccine injust a year with those oncentives and now its all bad old money causing the problems.
Yes. We live in different worlds. At least it seems so.
BKB
Viva Renaldo!
I don't think anyone has ever argued the point that one who has been vaccinated can still contract Covid. The difference is, the vaccinated generally come down with a case of the sniffles and recover at home, while the non-vaccinated end up in the hospital soaking up valuable resources ... then many of those same patients end up in the morgue while the vaccinated recover and go back to work.
It's an argument that will probably go on until the cows come home. Personally, I see this mess as becoming much like the flu. People dismiss the variants and use them as "I told you so's", but I get a flu shot annually ... and have done so for as long as I can remember. Why annually? Because every year there's a variant.
I feel that if we can get a grip on this Covid thing, it would be something not too many people would worry much about. Some die from the flu .... I've never had the flu that I'm aware of. I travel rather extensively compared to many and have been vaccinated for hepatitis and get a booster when due. I get a tetanus booster every 10 years. When I travel to a foreign country, I check with the CDC and get a vaccine for whatever is "going around" in that particular country at that particular time. Overkill? I dunno, but I'm not a gambler and trust the vaccines more than I do throwing caution to the wind.
For the life of me, I don't understand all the pushback on this Covid crap. As an infant, I was given the recommended inoculations of those times. As a kid, we had to have a list of vaccinations before we could start school. As a young adult in the military, we had to have a shitload of vaccinations before we even started Basic Combat Training. As an adult world traveler, I've been required to have certain vaccines before I was allowed a visa in some countries.
I see a LOT of stupidity in this country right now, so if the shoe fits ... well, you know where I'm coming from. Just don't breath on me. I promise, if I start growing a third eyeball on my forehead 10 years from now, I'll admit I was wrong ... to any antivaxxer who's still around then.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
What happened to “My body, my choice”? Or does that only apply to women and abortion?
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"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
Lame argument and not really related imho. I'm not going to get knocked up by sitting next to a pregnant woman in a restaurant.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
It does seem relevant. The argument has always been whatever I want to do with my body is my choice, whether that ends another life or not.
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