those crazy Catholics

[hotshot]

A few things that are based on what I learned as a 13 yr old prior to being accepted as amember of my parents' church: Protestasnt: a person who protested the Catholic Church. Regardless of denomination: two things must be the focus: Jesus as the way to God, and forgiveness. All the rest all humans messing with what God has said. I have been to many different services. A few that really just creeped me out were the pentacostal services.... Knowing the people who were doing the most wailing and "speaking in tongues", pretty sure it was a fake job.... they were Sunday faithful week long hellions..... nutzy coo-coo hellions.....
Baptist: don't mind them- except for the one guy who wore metal cleats to a church softball game and sliced my knee open. 10 stitches later, I forgave him(we won anyway).
Catholic: my cousin married into a Catholic family as did my sister. My wife grew up Catholic. I respect and find comfort in the ritual and ceremony of the Catholic church. I find the sermons of protestant churches more informative and helpful than just a ritual service.
I do think as an outsider that the whole celebacy thing has gone on long enough. The church's reason for insisting in celebacy nolonger are an issue and haven't been an issue since feudal Europe.
The Pope, I see as a connection to God, not just for Catholics, but all Christians. He is a learned man who has committed his life to studying scripture.... He should have an opinion. It may not always be right, but it is an opinion based on prayer and study. Again as a non-Catholic, an opinion that supports birth control- based on the exploding world population- should be adjusted. I agree with no abortions, but the pill- really is it so wrong to control the family's size????
Islam: as a social studies teacher this year, I have had to teach comparisons and contrasts between Christianity and Islam. The two are not as far off as people think..... There is even a similar 10 commandments. Islam even mentions Jesus as a profit and scholar..... An amazing amount of war, killing, etc could be eliminated if we all just said... oh, you have a relationship with God.... goood for you.
Aryan Brotherhood- duh guys... Jesus was Jewish, not a white guy from a trailer park who thinks everyone else is inferior!
Catholic tradition is respected and has as long history. It is also the beginning of all Chirstian denominations.
Hindu: we can't all be reincarnated, over half of the people who have ever lived are alive right now. Besides, I like meat too much- Grampa, we eating you tonight. And why is a cow a sacred animal?
Jesus and me- we are good... He isn't always happy with me, but I am going to be with him some day.
These statements are the opinion of Hotsnot, and do not represent anything the Pope thinks or says. God did not tell me to say any of it either.

[LW]

All this because I dont care what the retiring Pope calls himself or what he wears.....

[Big Boy]

With 12 years of Catholic education I feel somewhat qualified to comment. I do wish there were more Bible study in the Catholic Church. That being said, having spent 12 years in a Baptist Church, where we did a lot of Bible study; the quantity of types, translations, and languages that the Bible is published in (by humans), lead me to believe there's room for mistakes, spin, agendas, misrepresentations, additions, editing, etc. A few of which are sadly clear and documented and well known.

Taking what we read today too literally seems to be inappropriate. I’ve seen very long and heated “discussions” about a single word in the bible. An english word, in on translation of a Bible that is likely at least a 6th or 7th generation of the original manuscripts, which were only written after a hundred or hundreds of years of oral history.

Don’t get me wrong. The Bible is my life handbook. I’ve been chided up one side and down the other for my belief and my actions towards others. Especially in my divorce. The messages in the text we read are there and right and true. There is only one Truth. I’m just not sure any single verse (or several) we read in one of today’s Bibles can stand alone as an infallible truth without the entirety of the context of the Bible, or at least the testament it’s taken from.

Just my two cents.

[DeputyDog]

Big Boy, you just summed up nicely what I had been trying to say about interpreting single verses of scripture and how without the entire context, including understanding the time it was written and the audience it was written to can lead to many different ideas of what it means.

I had said early on that anyone can find verses that seem to support their position, especially if they ignore ones that are contrary to it, but only taken in it's entirety can the true message be understood.

[hotshot]

LW- I ain't upset- just commenting..... for discussion... And yes Big boy- the words are confuzzled after 2 millenium. Take the word Love for example. In the English version there is one word. The translation looses much from the Greek where there is Eros, Agape amd Phila..... I refer to when Jesus asked if Peter Loved hi... Peter replied three times: Agape, which was not the answer Jesus wanted, but accepted..... Are we to Friendly love our fellow man, or Agape- Godly love our fellow man. If we did Agape, there would be so much less of a mess on earth. Instead we even argue on how to worship.
and... we get 4 pages on the Pope.... I am still chuckling on the Pope's outfit description.

[Niner]

Everybody has to believe in something....

I believe I'll have another drink.

[LJ3]

All this because I dont care what the retiring Pope calls himself or what he wears.....

Hey, I learn more from you idiots than any other group of idiots I associate with. Which is none. So you guys are kinda it for me

[Buckrub]

I understand all the above, but I don't think I am taking things out of context. I understand the importance of Context. But I am using them in the context that they are supposed to be used in. Just saying "I don't think anyone can use any one verse because it might mean something different in some other context" doesn't get anyone out of understanding what that verse means. And no, you can not just prove anything with any verse. You can't believe just anything you want and then find a bible verse to prove that. No offense in any way, but that is the argument I always get from those that have no clue what's in the Bible, and they aren't about to look.

It is NOT that hard!! Some of it is harder than other parts, but mostly it's just not hard.

I know people read stuff into some verses. And what Hotshot said is very true.......but that makes studying the different verses important! Several Greek words are translated into English "love". But hey, it's not that hard to figure out WHICH one was used in the original language for that verse! Just find a greek concordance. It is easy to find out which word the originals used, and what it meant in that context.

oh never mind.

Odd that this one area seems to make people the maddest to talk about.............and I don't want to make anyone mad, so I'll stop.

[LJ3]

I ain't mad but I AM calling BS on your statement that the Bible isn't hard to understand. That is a seriously untrue statement. It's very difficult to understand to a layperson of average intelligence and literacy level.

Which is why there's an entire industry based on people interpreting it for us.

It's kinda like a religous tax code. No way it all makes sense to a layperson and there's no shortage of people claiming to understand and explain it for you... and oh by the way, maybe move a few of your dollars from your pocket, to theirs in the process.

[Buckrub]

And I call BS on your calling BS.

I am average intelligence. I have studied it since I could read. Some passages are harder than others. Most are not. It's just an anthology of books. Some of the early translations used English words we weren't familiar with, but King James Version was translated in 1611 for gosh sakes. There are American Standard Versions that are NOT difficult.

There is an entire industry, as you call it, dedicated to interpreting it for you FOR ONE REASON.......YOU/WE WON'T TRY TO 'INTERPRET' IT OURSELVES!!! No other reason. Stop listening to TV Gimme Preachers, and stop listening to (well meaning) folks with their collars backwards, and just pick it up and read it.

Honest, if I can get it, you can.

And not even trying is gonna get you (and everyone) in one heap of trouble one day!

I've done what I can. I don't want animosity towards me for trying.

[LJ3]

I have no animosity at all, Bucky. None whatsoever. But it ain't easy to understand. As a book, it's very poorly written If it's so simple and straightforward, why must it be studied and mastered? Why can't it just be read once and simply understood?

I'm asking honestly.

And where did the Pope get those banging red shoes?

[Captain]

They were black and Eddie spilled Seafoam on em'

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[BarryBobPosthole]

If the Bible is so straightforward and easy to understand, then why are there over 41,000 christian denominations, each with their own interpretation of these straightforward scriptures?

I don't like any of them.
BKB

[Buckrub]

LJ, you are asking the wrong person. I didn't write it.

Posthole, I have a personal thought on that, but don't know. But there are not 41,000. There are indeed WAY too many. Many are pretty similar, though. I wish it were even simpler than it is. It is not 100% straightforward, I didn't say that. I said it can be mastered by average folks, who want to do so. It can more easily be ignored by those who want to do that. And it can be misread by those who have ulterior motives, or who are just mistaken.

I still think that 95% of the folks that say that it's too hard, and that we have all these confused people that conflict, are ones that haven't tried to figure it out themselves. They just see that others are confused on it, and don't try, or don't want to try. It does have some personal restrictions that upset a lot of folks' lifestyles, I get that. I think that's the biggest two reasons...........that they haven't tried to read it themselves but just see confusion and give up before they start.......and they are actually afraid to try because they do have some idea that they'll have to change, and don't want to.

I'm not the guy that wrote it. I just read it.

I pray daily that I'm mistaken about it all, and that everyone that is short of Mass Murderer will make it to Heaven. I hope that's true. But I don't believe it at this time.

[BarryBobPosthole]

I have no issue with any person who tries hard to learn the truth and seeks to educate themselves on the meanings and interpretaions of the Bible or any other of the moral codes that have withstood the tests of time. I personally believe that the very survival of our species depends to a great extent on our social values and mores. The Bible is a book of great wisdom. But there's a difference in a person who tries to help others reach a similar understanding as theirs and a person who claims to have a divine understanding that simply isn't available to others. That is what priests claim to be. A priest can remove you from God's list just easily as he can add you to it. That's just absurd. We may as well believe in shamans and visions of the witch doctors. And I mean priests and priestesses of any religion who claim to have recieved a divine calling. I just don't buy it.
I do believe there is a universal mind that knows when even the little sparrow falls. He knows it because he is the sparrow. He is everything. He is the atoms that make up the sparrow. And he is the laws of physics that causes the sparrow to fall. In other words, he is, in fact the universe itself. I don't understand much of it beyond that, but what I do think I know, I believe. And no, in all honesty I don't believe he listens ro or answers prayers, per se. But I do know that when people do pray, stuff happens. I ain't got that part figured out yet.
Maybe some day.
BKB

[Buckrub]

Me either, man. Prayer is the one thing that I just simply do not personally understand. That, and when do babies get souls? Those two things are top of my list one day.

And I don't like Priests OR Lawyers. I don't want to be subject to any legal system which I'm incapable of understanding..........especially when most of the time I am smarter than they are.

So, we agree once more.

Let the waters part.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Its a mackerel!

BKB

[Buckrub]

a holy one?

(is this another joke I didn't get? I'm getting tired of this)...........

[LJ3]

I do believe there is a universal mind that knows when even the little sparrow falls. He knows it because he is the sparrow. He is everything. He is the atoms that make up the sparrow. And he is the laws of physics that causes the sparrow to fall. In other words, he is, in fact the universe itself. I don't understand much of it beyond that, but what I do think I know, I believe. And no, in all honesty I don't believe he listens ro or answers prayers, per se. But I do know that when people do pray, stuff happens. I ain't got that part figured out yet.
Maybe some day.
BKB

We didn't drink enough vodka for me to articulate my findings on that one but I feel like I'm closer than I've ever been, in fiddy one years, of figuring that one out

[LW]

Note to self....Do not start a thread about the Pope or his retirement lifestyle.

[LW]

This is making me long for Gunther to interject with something about killing cats.

[Captain]

Note to self....Do not start a thread about the Pope or his retirement lifestyle.

Or his shoes....
Take Care, Captain

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[LJ3]

Note to self....Do not start a thread about the Pope or his retirement lifestyle.

Sorry I could have been the primary hijacker

I think it was an interesting turnout! In my defense, I did try to bring it back to his banging red shoes!

[Captain]

I've never seen that shade of shoe polish..
Take Care, Captain

PS: what IS the best handload for cats?

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[LJ3]

YOu don't need a hand load. The former Pope can nail them with his shoes, problem solved.

[LW]

All this discussion and reference to the King James version of the bible got me to pondering. Who is my favorite king? King James is up there, he had his own religion. Maybe "the king". Wait, I know, King Kong.

[BarryBobPosthole]

BB

BKB

[LW]

Good one.

[LW]

Stephen Kings pretty cool too.

[Captain]

I always liked Carole but she's "so far away".

Only the old dufes will get that

Take Care, Captain

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