So, let me get this straight …

[BarryBobPosthole]

True enough. A big part of the problem is states reduced the amount of money they put into state colleges and the gap got passed on to the students (parents).

From a Pew Trust article: In 1990 state per student funding was almost 140 percent more than that of the federal government. However, over the past two decades and particularly since the Great Recession, spending across levels of government converged as state investments declined, particularly in general purpose support for institutions, and federal ones grew, largely driven by increases in the need-based Pell Grant financial aid program. As a result, the gap has narrowed considerably, and state funding per student in 2015 was only 12 percent above federal levels.[2]

[Hombre]

I read that as, Fed money was made easier to get so states stopped funding schools thus just shifting the burden to students?

Which brings me to another point. Here we have a program where kids can take full-time community college classes their Junior and Senior year. The credits are applied to their high school requirements. Example if you take 101 english it applies to your english 2 high school requirement. So many kids opted into this program that the Federal Gov was going to reduce funding to the school due to a lack of students enrolled in the actual HS. So, the HS decided they would discontinue the program in order to ramp up enrollment. Some how they saved the program but this would have left a lot of kids without an option to finish college. The lady who actually told me about the discontinuation was in tears, because 3 of her 4 kids completed college through this program and her 4th would likely not attend based on cost. Which, brings me to the point. The Gov doesn't honestly care (both sides) about real issues like this, they pander to the vote of their party. And, we are to blame. We consistently support our parties when they are doing shitty things.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Fed money was made easier for students not colleges, via the Pell grant program for the most part.

[Hombre]

Ya my first line says that..the next was a separate thought

[DeputyDog]

My kids’ school district also offers the dual credit classes. If a student takes full advantage of the classes offered, they can have their entire first year of college complete when the graduate from high school at a fraction of the cost.

They have scaled back the number of classes offered though. More because of a lack of qualified teachers than over funding. The was it was explained to me was that in order for the class to qualify for the dual credit it had to match the college’s requirements and that included having a teacher with at minimum having a Master’s degree. The issue my school district ran into was the lack of teachers holding a Master’s degree. This was mainly because there was no pay incentive to obtain the extra degree so not very many got them.

The district that my wife works for and a very substantial bonus for additional degrees and credits so most of the teachers have a Master’s.


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[Hombre]

DD - Ours actually go to the college for the classes (local Junior College). The downside is that kids miss out on the HS experience as both of mine spent Junior and Senior year at the Junior college and other than dances, football games, and school activities they never set foot on the HS campus. They also end up with an associates degree, or have that opportunity.

[Penguin]

Good points all around.

I think that this just postpones a reckoning in higher education. Costs are SO much higher than even 20 years ago when I finished that comparisons to how I did it are silly. It's not fair to this generation. Period. Giving these immature kids a choice of predatory loans or no college is elitism of the worst kind.n

But higher education is filled with stupid ass make believe majors and metric tons of grievance related administrators. And they all consider themselves entitled to label anyone who disagrees with them politically an enemy. AND expect those enemies to pay the bill to keep them rolling in tax money to continue their brainwashing curriculum.

What we need is a negotiation. Clean up colleges and get rid of the parasites, get back to teaching kids how to use their brains. But make it affordable.

We're heading into a very difficult period in this country. The fact that we can't even solve this simple assed problem makes me wonder what kind of future we face.

[quercus alba]

Hallelujah preach on brother. I knew if I would just sit quietly that Willie would come along and sum it up very succinctly and I wouldn't have to hurt my brain

[Penguin]

Hehe.

I flatter myself as being the Dennis Eckersley of internet shit tossing arguments. 😊

[quercus alba]

I'm more like Bob Uecker

[Chicken Dinner]

Willy, those are great points. The cost of higher education is out of control. Like others have mentioned, back in the dark ages, I was able to put myself through an out of state public school working part time during the year, savings from my summer job and a small federal loan of about $5k. I’ve been fortunate to do well enough in life that one of my kids just finished and the other started and I am in a position to pay for their school and will do so as long as they do t screw around. But, someone in my situation would be SOL now and I don’t begrudge them a hand up.


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[quercus alba]

Why stop there, Let's just pay off everyone's healthcare bills while we're at it. I need a dependable car for driving to work, let's just pass the cost on to someone else. The principle is the same, a contract is a contract and needs to be honored even if it's difficult...especially if it's difficult, teaches good lessons on fiscal responsibility. I have no problem with my tax dollars being used to help the elderly or disabled or needy or supporting the military or law enforcement but i have a BIG damn problem having to foot the bill for a four year degree in french Renaissance painters or some similar foolishness. We are doing a great disservice to the next generation by teaching them that they have no responsibility in any facet of life.

Ain't no shame in doing things the right way

[Chicken Dinner]

I guess I’d feel different if student loan were dischargable in bankruptcy so individuals would be in the same position as corporations.


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[quercus alba]

I know people are built different but in my opinion many and maybe even most of the bankruptcy cases is just a cop out. If I give my word then I'm going to do everything in my power to keep it. I may not have much worth fighting for but my word and integrity is something I'll not allow to be questioned

BTW, I oppose government bailouts and handouts to anyone, race or political affiliation be damned

[BarryBobPosthole]

I’d include multiple NFIP (Federal government flood insurance) payouts tp replace rich folk’s beach houses and condos in government handouts as well.

There are some places its just risky to live.If you live therewhy do I need to pay for your risk? Lots of people who live on the coast have rebuild multiple times on our nickel.


BkB

[Thumper]

I’m 100% with you on this one Q/A.

[DeputyDog]

I’d include multiple NFIP (Federal government flood insurance) payouts tp replace rich folk’s beach houses and condos in government handouts as well.

There are some places its just risky to live.If you live therewhy do I need to pay for your risk? Lots of people who live on the coast have rebuild multiple times on our nickel.


BkB

Couldn’t the same be said about most of New Orleans?


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[Thumper]

That's what I've always wondered about California. They build houses in the canyons or on the ocean view cliffs, then every year there are fires that wipe them out .... if they manage to escape the fires, the rainy season is close behind, followed by massive mudslides, then the houses either end up on the Pacific Coast Highway or continue on down the hill to the beaches or the bottom of the canyons. Then FEMA comes in and pays to rebuild!

I carry hurricane insurance as a rider on my homeowner's policy, but have no clue why I spend all that money. Whenever we have a bad storm, FEMA moves in and offers piles of cash for the under or uninsured "victims".

[BarryBobPosthole]

Its no different than any other federal relief but I don’t hear anyone mad as hell about it. And it happens every year. They’ll not pay me for mine if it gets flooded. Why those on the coasts?

BKB

[jb]

Learn something every day. Remember having to go to the bookstore and spend hundreds of dollars buying books written by the prof and in some cases never had to crack the binding because you took good notes in class.
Plus having to lug around a few of these to class under your arm (because back in the 60's Backpacks were not invented yet)
Then returning them to the bookstore to get 50 cents on the dollar back ?
Grand daughter does something different today, She still has to buy the $100 book the prof wrote, but she can down load it on her I-pad, but at the end of the class she gets nothing on the return. Well at least she not hauling around a 50 lb. backpack.

[Thumper]

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[BarryBobPosthole]

Do people get $100k loans to go to trade schools?

BKB

[Thumper]

It SEEMS like a 100k debt to one who goes to a trade school. Isn’t the whole purpose of a 4-year degree to make the big bucks? Otherwise, what’s the point? Use those big bucks to pay your frigging big bucks loan. You know the one, the one you signed on the dotted line for when you promised to pay it back. The same I did when I bought my car, my house and my motor home. The same I do with my credit cards. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?

[Chicken Dinner]

The whole purpose of getting a four year degree is to get an education which “may” lead to big bucks. (No, that’s not
the only way to get an education.). But, if professions training is the ONLY reason you’re going to college than choose your college wisely.


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[BarryBobPosthole]

Maybe its splitting hairs but I thought the main reason kids went to college was to further their education so they could have more and better options for whatever their career ended up being. That’s not really the same as going to ‘make the big bucks’.
I know plenty who’ve made good money who never finished college and many who finished that enjoyed much lower paying careers but were happy as clams.
My only point being, this doesn’t all fit in a nice convenient speaking point package either for or against providing relief for people who got in debt over their heads.

BkB

[Thumper]

We’ll then, if it’s not for required, specific, career goals, it’s just a matter if choice. If you choose to get a college degree just so you can “further your education”, isn’t that a personal choice? Again, I can drive a Toyota or a Ferrari and IF I could afford it, I’d choose the Ferrari. I can’t afford a Ferrari, so I wouldn’t simply buy one anyway and expect my Uncle Sugar to bail me out and help me with the payments. I guess I just look at these things from a different perspective. My bad.

[quercus alba]

This is almost like having a civil political discussion like we used to do, all that's missing is for Larke to come in and kick over a couple of fresh piles to liven things up

[Thumper]

Larke? Naaa, he'd NEVER do anything like that! (would he?)

Note: 90% of the time, when he was planning some shit-stirring, he'd call me first so I could go in as back-up and add fuel to the fire. He finished college with a MSD degree (master shit-disturber).

[BarryBobPosthole]

I understand this is a hot button issue for you, Jim. But I also think its myopic to choose this particular issue and claim the whole world is going to hell because of it.
If its about personal choices, the riddle me this, Batman. A person chooses to live a very unhealthy life, smoking, eating like a pig, not exercizing, and just generally drinking like a fish. These personal choices result in very poor health. When they retire and get on medicare and quite probably ss disability, guess which taxpayers get to pay fir that person’s ‘personal choices’? We all do of course. (the same is true for private insurance holders but that’s another topic) The same is true for those who rebuild multiple times in flood zones as I’ve mentioned before. Farmers purchase crop insurance from the federal government to cover their risks involved with the personal choices they make about what crops to put in.And before you jump up in horror to defend farmers, chill out. I don’t think any of it is bad. But we taxpayers pay for losses involved in many people’s ‘personal choices’. Some folks never work at a ‘real’ jobentire lives. There’s lots of people who spend their entire working lives either working for cash or not working at all. Personal choices. But when they turn 62 they’ll still collect social security when they’ve never paid in a penny to the program. There are many other examples.
The choice, as I see it, is we can get all twisted up in knots about what some other soul is getting or we can simply control the things we have control over and make sure we do things the right way.
I’m kind of tired of hearing about how shitty everyone else is. It seems to be the theme these days. With nary an eye turned inwards.

BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Barry, I think you may be into something here. When I think about all the crap the government chooses to spend “our” money on, forgiving student loans for lower income families isn’t even on my list of the top ten things to be outraged about.


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