I’ll admit, I had serious doubts, BUT ….

[Thumper]

… there may actually be something to this crazy shit! I’ve had back issues for almost 15 years. I went through 3-1/2 years of Percocet and morphine, but with the big addiction scares, the VA pulled me off of them. I’ve suffered all these years on nothing but X-Strength Tylenol or Aleve.

I recently had an (unrelated) appointment with my cardiologist and she noticed I was struggling. I mentioned the back pain and she asked if I’d be interested in trying acupuncture. I told her the whole acupuncture thing seems a little goofy to me, but I’d be willing to try it for shits & grins. She said she’ll set me up with an appointment in March.

Now, Lynn has had terrible lower back pain for a couple years now and is prescribed pain meds, but hates taking them. After we talked with my cardiologist, she decided to try acupuncture herself. We went in for her first treatment today, with a Filipino doctor.

Ok, the doc explained the procedure and told us it might work, it might work a little bit, it may not do a danged thing and it COULD even make her back pain WORSE (temporarily). Ha! Talk about covering your ass!

She’s scheduled for 5 sessions, one per week. He said there probably won’t be an immediate improvement, but after the 5th treatment, Lynn’s progress will be evaluated and a decision will be made whether to continue with treatments.

Heck, what do we have to lose? She’s been miserable. I’m not shitting you, we went to lunch afterwards, then returned home. She said she has ZERO pain and has been bouncing off the walls ever since we’ve been home! She’s been dancing around like a ballerina and kicking her legs so high in the air, she practically kicks the ceiling. SO FAR … it’s been an incredible result, but we’re being realistic and not getting overly excited as we have no idea how long this will last.

Ok, the pain was in her lower back and would travel into her left butt-cheek. When she would hit a certain position, she would actually scream out loud and practically drop to the floor in pain. At times, we’d be in bed asleep and she might roll over, hit a certain position and scream so loudly she’d have to peel me off the ceiling!

Anyway, for the chronic pain in her lower back which would travel to her left butt-cheek, the doc stuck 10 pins into the cartilage of her left ear. He left them in there for 10 minutes, then removed them. I think this might be an interesting journey and a true learning experience. I may end up becoming a believer by time my appointment time arrives.

[quercus alba]

My wife is big in reflexology and she swears by it. I’ve only had moderate success with it. It’s kinda the same principle without the pointed thingees. She can roll a marble around on a pressure point and make you scream.

[Thumper]

I must have been thinking of you when I posted the above. For some unknown reason, I stated the doctor was Korean, but I've corrected it, he's actually Filipino.

Odd story, when I was about 10 years old or so, I had a friend who lived up the street from me. His mom had a room in their house that always had the door closed and we were instructed to NEVER enter that room. She often had people stopping by the house and she'd take them in there and close the door behind her. Due to our ages, we had visions of some sort of witchcraft or something weird and spooky going on. Actually, our imaginations would run a little wild wondering what they were doing in there. One day, I was at their house and had a terrible head cold of some sort. My head felt like it was about to explode and I was so stuffed up there was no way I could breath through my nose. My buddy's mom noticed my discomfort and asked me to follow her into that mystery room. It was a bit spooky as the walls were covered with large posters of the body's skeletal structure, organs, blood vessels and nerve images. She had me lie down on what looked like a doctor's examination table and she cleaned my feet with a towel and alcohol (being a kid in Florida, I VERY seldom wore shoes). She then started to kind of "twirl" a couple of my toes. I can't remember if it was one foot or both. I honestly don't recall everything that was done, I just remember her twiddling around with my toes. My frigging sinuses cleared up immediately! I can't remember if I blew my nose or not, but I have no idea where all that snot disappeared to. I could literally close my mouth and breath clearly through my nose after just a few minutes. I was amazed and asked how she did that and she pointed to one of those charts on the wall, then traced some sort of nerves from the toes up into the head/sinus area. I really don't remember all the details, but that memory has been permanently etched into my brain for over 60 years now. I have no clue what she practiced. Acupressure? Reflexology? I'm clueless about this sort of stuff TBH.

At least I finally found out what was behind that secret door and realized it wasn't a witch's torture chamber after all!

[quercus alba]

They say it can help with ED but the thought of an 80 year old Filipino man massaging my feet giving me a woody, well I'm not even going to contemplate that scenario

[Thumper]

They say it can help with ED but the thought of an 80 year old Filipino man massaging my feet giving me a woody, well I'm not even going to contemplate that scenario

Well, I'm sure I could search around and find a 25-year old Filipina who recently graduated acupuncture school and needs the practice. Heck, that'd be enough incentive to fake the ED symptoms, then declare she'd performed a miracle!

Lynn woke up this morning, still pain free after a full night's sleep. This wasn't supposed to be an instantaneous thing and we were told multiple sessions would be needed, but so far, so good. We're keeping our fingers crossed, but at the same time, trying not to get our hopes up too high. Supposedly, this isn't how it works.

[DeputyDog]

My wife really got into the essential oils a few years back and some of those actually seem to work as advertised. They also get into the reflexology as places to apply the oils to get their full benefit.


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[Thumper]

The doc was a jokester and we really got along well. I'd throw a wise crack at him and he'd come right back with one of his own. Plus, we hit it off a bit from the get-go as I was running around his neighborhood in the Philippines back in the day. He said where I used to hang out was about 20-mins from his house. Of course, he was only 13 years old at the time.

As stated above, Lynn's pain would sometimes shoot from her lower back to her left butt-cheek. When he started sticking pins in her ear, I said, "Doc, I think you misunderstood ... the pain is in her REAR, not her ear!"

It cracked me up just before he got started, he dragged a book out of his desk and started flipping through the pages. He then looked at Lynn and apologized for the delay, then told her she was his first patient and he wanted to double check and make sure he was doing this correctly. I told him, "Hey, SOMEBODY has to be first, ya' got'ta start somewhere!" I really liked the guy.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Cupping seems to be a thing lately too, mainly (supposedly) to aid in recovery from all kinds of muscle related stuff. There was even a local news story on it here last week.

BKB

[DeputyDog]

I remember seeing something about cupping during the last Olympics. Seemed like all of the swimmers had several big round marks on them from cupping between events.


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[Thumper]

That kind'a takes the fun out of giving hickies.

[Chicken Dinner]

I’ve never done it. But, my Mrs. has to help alleviate some of the side effects of a chronic condition she has and it ‘s Bern reasonably effective. I’ve also got a good buddy with neck issues and he swears by it. Little Chinese lady also gave him some herbal supplements that work as well as viagra according to him.


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[Thumper]

C. D., which are you referring to? The acupuncture? Or one of the other subjects in the thread? I’m seriously curious. So far, Lynn is totally pain free. I’m becoming a bit intrigued.

[Chicken Dinner]

Acupuncture, except for the herbal viagra. No needles involved there as far as I know.


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[Thumper]

Well, we’re in for the second session. 10 last week, 12 today. This stuff really works!




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[Thumper]

This is hard to grasp. Lynn has had some lower back pain for the last few years that gets so bad, she sometimes can't get out of bed without crying out. She's been to Chiropractors and been prescribed muscle relaxers, etc, to no avail. One of her doctors suggested acupuncture and informed her Medicare would take care of it. I'll admit, I thought it was a bunch of hocus-pokus, but I'm about convinced there's really something to this malarky. The doc wants to do 5 treatments (one per week for 5 weeks), then evaluate the results and develop a treatment program from there. He did tell us that sometimes it works, sometimes it partially works and on some, it does nothing at all. He said, for some, it can actually make the pain worse, but it's temporary.

After the first treatment, Lynn's pain went away completely ... immediately. She was so happy, she was dancing around the house! BUT .... a slight pain returned the second day. Nothing at all bad, but she could "feel it". Her second treatment was last Friday and she's been TOTALLY pain free since. She still has 3 treatments to go before her evaluation, but so far, I don't even know if she needs them. I asked the doc if, once her pain is gone, is it permanent, or is it like meds where you have to get non-stop treatments. He said, for some, it's permanent. Others may have long-lasting results, but need to have a follow-up treatment/treatments as needed ... maybe after 6 months, a year ... it depends on the patient. Anyway, so far, Lynn has been totally pain-free for the past 5 days with just 2 out of 5 scheduled appointments. We're keeping our fingers crossed.

Oh, in case you're curious, the pins were left in for 10 minutes during the first treatment and 15 mins. for the second. The first treatment was 10 pins, the second was 12 pins (I have no clue how the following treatments will be handled or what difference the number of pins makes).

[Bwana]

I for one am very intrigued as I too have lower back pain for which injections into the area at the pain clinic didn't help, but I need to get better at stretching regularly as that seems to help. So VERY glad to hear it is working for Lynn!

I also have shoulder pain that NOTHING seems to help. Have to admit the missus was probably right that someone my age should quit climbing trees with a chainsaw. The climb and the cutting went well and hell, for that matter so did the fall except for that one branch that really slowed down my right arm while everything else kept falling at a high rate of speed.

Wonder if we have any of those pin pushers around here that know what they are doing?

[Chicken Dinner]

Damn, Bwana. I think we’re about the same age I decided a couple of years ago to leave the second story jobs to some twenty something. They’re inexpensive and don’t yet have a full appreciation for the laws of nature.


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[Thumper]

Yeah Bwana, it may be worth a try at least. I guess it's an OLD "technology" that's gaining modern day traction, but still falls into a "grey area" as far as insurance coverage is concerned. Example, my VA insurance did not cover acupuncture a few years back. Now, they have no acupuncturists physically available at the VA hospital, but I've been informed they will now pay for me to seek acupuncture treatment from an outside source. My VA doctor referred me and set me up with an acupuncture appointment in March. I really don't know what to expect, but I'm trying not to set my expectations too high. My back pain started after a surgery where some infected muscle tissue was removed. But, admittedly, I don't have a full understanding of how this stuff works. We'll see I guess.

Lynn's case involves Medicare. She has Medicare A and D, as well as a supplemental that covers most everything else (eye, dental, cancer, etc). None of her additional insurance covers acupuncture, but her pain doc told her that Medicare started covering acupuncture treatments as of just a few years ago. When we went in for the consultation, she was informed Medicare ONLY covers acupuncture addressing "lower back pain". I don't know the exact criteria that has to be met, but there were no issues with coverage once we started the treatments. I guess wading through the coverage/non-coverage issues are still a bit murky between insurance plans. We did not seek out acupuncture treatment, but coincidently, BOTH of our doctors (mine VA, hers within her Medicare HMO network) suggested acupuncture to address our totally different back problems. There's still a variable to conquer I guess. Like any doctor or specialist, how do you differentiate between a GOOD acupuncturist and a BAD one? I suppose referrals and reading internet reviews is the only answer. My buddy who is a very wealthy Chinese dude, actually went to China to visit an acupuncturist to address some pain issues he had. He came through it with ZERO results and could not tell a bit of difference after treatment, so I suppose it can be a bit of a coin-toss.

That said, we're going in for Lynn's third treatment today, even though she has had ZERO back pain since her previous (2nd) treatment. Another thing to note, we are leaving for California this Wednesday, so it'll be a few weeks between the third and fourth treatments. Her doc said it would be no problem and he'd just schedule the last two treatments once we return. She may need them after two cross country trips flying center seat in Basic Economy coach class (I'm cheap)! That will probably be a good test to see how well this stuff really works.

[Thumper]

Treatment #3, 11 pins, zero back pain so far. Gonna be leaving town for a couple weeks, so booked for treatment #4 on Feb. 16.




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[Thumper]

Ok. the fact Lynn was going through acupuncture treatments the same time my VA doc asked if I'd consider acupuncture, was a total coincidence. We were discussing my chronic back pain and she asked if I'd ever considered it. After Lynn's success, I said I'd be interested in trying it. I'll have to admit, I have my doubts .... I guess I'm just stubborn. She made an appt, for last month, but I had to call and reschedule since we were in California. My first treatment was scheduled for today. Now mind you, I've had chronic back pain, 24/7 for 15 years (as of this coming November).

I have no idea what the differences are, but Lynn has been through 6-7 (?) treatments so far and after every treatment, her pain is totally gone .... BUT, it starts creeping back after about a week or so. The doc did tell us results often vary, so there's still a chance she might walk out some day and never have to go back. We'll see. Note: Every treatment she's had consisted of 10-12 pins in her left ear.

Now, to my first treatment at the VA today. I ended up with 18 pins, stuck in various places in my toes, feet, shins, thighs, arms and hands. I felt like a human pin cushion! After 15-20 mins, the doc removed the pins and asked me to get up off the gurney and see how I felt. DAMN! I actually sat up, slid around and stood straight up! For the past 15 years, I've had to pretty much roll out of bed and slowly push myself up with my arms. I've also been hunched over like an old man all these years, just looking at my toes, but I stood straight up for the first time in all those years. Percocets, morphine and x-tra strength Tylenol never came close to doing what this first acupuncture treatment did today. So far, I'm still pain free! Granted, I have other back issues that will never go away, but I can deal with them. The doc suggested we give it a couple weeks, then come in for another treatment and an evaluation to determine future treatments (if needed).

I had serious doubts in the beginning, but I think I've been made a believer in this hocus-pokus acupuncture stuff! So far.

As a side note: Our best friend (the Subway guy) is Chinese. He's a bazillionaire and can afford most anything he'd ever want or need. He actually went to China to see a well respected Chinese acupuncturist, paid the big bucks and it did absolutely nothing for him. Zip, zilch. nada! I guess it's a hit or miss sort of thing, like the docs have been telling us, but so far, so good, for Lynn and me.

[Chicken Dinner]

That’s great Jim! I hope it’s true magic bullet (or needle) for you!


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[Thumper]

You and me both. It’s only been 24-hrs, but so far, so good. Lynn has gone 3 weeks since her last treatment. During that time we made 2 cross-country trips (Fl-Ca) flying Basic Economy class, and so far, she’s been pain free. She has a follow-up treatment this Friday (scheduled before our trip), but she’s considering cancelling, or at least postponing it. We’ll see.

[BarryBobPosthole]

That’s awesome!

[Penguin]

You gotta believe that something that's been around that long? With that many sober people who swear it works? Has to be real for some.

Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[Thumper]

Well, I'm at the 3-day mark, and so far, still no pain. The past 3 days have been the ONLY days I've been pain-free in the past 15 years, so even if the pain comes back today, I'm happy! (I'd be MUCH happier if it does NOT come back of course).

I've never really paid a bit of attention to this sort of thing, but I'm becoming a believer. Lynn and I have both benefited greatly, but as stated above, it did nothing for our Chinese friend. TBH, he is in pretty poor health and has multiple, fairly major, medical and physical issues. I'm really not even sure I know what he was trying to have treated in China, so I'm not sure counting his experience as a total failure is fair or not. It's a bit fascinating in a way, but I'm only 3 days out from my first treatment, so I'm not sure what the future holds. Time will tell, but I'm happy, so far.

If any o'youse dufes have a related issue that you just haven't gotten relief with using traditional treatments, you may want to consider asking your doc. (heck, TBH, I have no idea what all can be helped with acupuncture) As Willie pointed out, it's been around a bazillion years, so there must be something to it ... but then again, so have witch doctors. quack medicine and faith healers, so whatever floats your boat I suppose. Just remember, I was a total sceptic, but I'm convinced there really is something to this goofy shit. YMMV

Now that I think of it, the VA approves of acupuncture and my treatments were actually performed at the VA Hospital here, so that should add some validity to this stuff. Lynn is on Medicare and Medicare covers her treatments, so again, I think that adds more validity to the acceptance in the modern world of medicine. I was hoping the VA would start backing Mary J. Hoochie as a valid treatment, but so far, they haven't jumped on-board.

[Bwana]

So VERY happy for you and Linn.

Now, I wonder if there are any acupuncturist-type folks around here???

[Thumper]

I’m really wondering how this is going to go. I had the procedure Monday, today is Friday and the pain is still gone. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

[quercus alba]

What they don't tell you is that on the follow up visit they stick about 40 of those pins in your prick. Well, according to Lynn in your case it'd be getting crowded with half a dozen but you get the point

[Thumper]

Crowded? Not worried about it ... they'd have to be using railroad spikes.