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Thread: Innersting Topic

  1. #1
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Innersting Topic

    This article on the CNN website got me to thinking about how I've viewed work over the years. There was a time when I worked 70-80 hours a week and to be honest about it, it was because I loved what I was doing as much as it was that it was expected of me. I think it was somewhere about 50 that I started to have a different viewpoint of what actually work meant to me and my values changed a lot. More towards family and home than what I did for a living or how hard I worked at it. Work accomplishments are still important to me, but I sure do view it differently than I used to. What's happened in my industry with the criminal behavior in the business along with the whole internet bust and offshoring and all that. I still apply myself but its with a lot less 'vigor' than it used to be. Maybe I'm jaded, I dunno, but the past ten years or so I've had more the attitude that my work accomplishments really don't mean much when I compare it to other things in my life. I'd rather be a more accomplished Dad, in other words, than an accomplished telecom person.
    Is that an age thing and more importantly is it how I (we?) should have viewed things all along? If so, I've sure set a bad example for my kids. I was pretty absent for several years and it had its own costs.
    Anyway, its food for thought. I have no issue with hard work. I think what I have an issue with is maybe work obsession.

    BKB

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney)
    What would you do with your time if you only had to work four, three, or even two days a week?

    Decades ago, experts predicted we would all be working just 14 to 15 hours a week by now, and would have so much free time, we wouldn't even know what to do with ourselves.
    Share your story with our reporters, and you could be featured on CNNMoney.
    Do you live near a meth lab?

    Instead, U.S. workers have been stuck with the official 40-hour workweek -- or even longer for many of us -- since 1938, in order to finance our ever-expensive lifestyles.

    The predictions: Back in 1930, renowned economist John Maynard Keynes predicted technological advancements would mean we would all eventually work just 15 hours a week. That same year, evolutionary biologist Julian Huxley predicted the two-day work week. Both men warned that someday, we would have so much leisure time, we would be bored out of our minds.

    "The human being can consume so much and no more," Huxley said in 1930. "When we reach the point when the world produces all the goods that it needs in two days, as it inevitably will, we must curtail our production of goods and turn our attention to the great problem of what to do with our new leisure."

    More recently, a 1965 Senate subcommittee predicted we would be working 14 hours a week by the year 2000, with at least seven weeks of vacation time.

    The reality: These great thinkers were right about one thing. Technological progress has made workers more productive than ever before.

    Yet rather than cutting the work week gradually over time (like the Europeans did), productivity gains have fueled a consumerism boom in the United States. So instead of taking time off, Americans are just buying much more stuff.

    Benjamin Hunnicutt, a historian at the University of Iowa, calls the shorter workweek the "forgotten American dream."
    EU unemployment solution: Apprenticeships
    EU unemployment solution: Apprenticeships

    "New marketing techniques of corporate America were able to convince us to buy things we had never seen before and had never needed before," he said. "Work was valorized -- elevated to the center of life more so than it ever had been before, and leisure was demoted and trivialized."

    Meanwhile, income gains have been disproportionately distributed throughout the economy. Middle-class wages have largely remained stagnant since the 1980s, after adjusting for inflation, whereas the top 1% richest Americans have captured much of the wealth.

    Poll: If you had a choice between a longer weekend or more pay, which would you choose?

    The 40-hour work week, adopted shortly after the Great Depression, was originally thought of as a job creation tool.

    "Cutting hours of work can have positive effects on employment levels during a severe economic downturn," the International Labour Organization noted in a report last month.

    Shortened hours can be used to create jobs, the ILO said, as fewer hours for one worker means more work for another.

    And shorter workweeks are not entirely unheard of today.

    Since the economic crisis, lots of workers have been forced to shorten their work week as their employers cut back.

    During the height of the recession, Utah tried cramming 40-hour work weeks for its government employees into four 10-hour days, in order to save on operating costs and avoid layoffs. The government was able to cut costs, while the employees got an extra day off without having to take a hit to their paychecks.

    Shorter weeks are also common in Europe. In the Netherlands, four-day work weeks are practically the rule, not the exception. And France tried a 35-hour work week for a few years, too.

    The average German worker puts in 394 hours less than an American each year -- the equivalent of nearly ten fewer weeks. The country is far smaller than the United States in area, population and resources, yet still manages to compete as the fourth largest economy and third largest exporter in the world.

    CNN: Why four-day workweeks are best

    Money doesn't buy happiness: In most cases, fewer hours mean workers might have to take a pay cut, and would not be able to buy as much. But in exchange, they'll get more free time, save on child care costs and likely be healthier and happier in general.

    For example, Dutch workers are on par with American workers in terms of productivity per hour. They pay higher taxes and earn less than Americans. But on average, they work roughly 11 weeks less than their American counterparts each year, have access to government-funded health care, pay little or nothing for a college education, and have far more leisure time than the American.

    When UNICEF recently ranked 21 industrialized nations by well-being for children, Netherlands was on top and the United States was near the bottom, in 20th place.

    Guess who also ranked happier with life overall? The Dutch worker.

    But Americans still labor on.

    "The idea that we can grow our economies forever and ensure everyone a full-time job is a myth," Hunnicutt said. "We have to deliberately choose to work less and therefore buy less." To top of page

  2. #2
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    You raise some good points (and questions) P-hole. My dad was a work-a-holic all his life ... in fact he was still working full-time when he passed away. I only remember him taking maybe two vacations in his life ... and if I remember correctly, those were only because my mom insisted he accompany us! I remember even in the military, I'd go into work and relieve the mid-op ... and when the swing-op showed up to relieve me, I'd usually ask him to go grab a bite to eat and come back an hour later. It was probably the most interesting job I ever had now that I think back about it. It was really hard to be in the middle of playing secret agent and listening to what the enemy was planning to do tomorrow and just turn it over to my relief guy on the next shift. I wanted to work it to the end. To make matters worse, we had to operate 24/7 .. since we were always short-handed, we didn't get many days off. I think the best I ever broke was something like 26 & 2 (26 days on and 2 days off)! The worst was about 43 & 2 I think ... and that lasted over a year!

    Once back in civilian life, I'd work long hours and when I moved up into management, it got worse. I'd get up at 4:30 am and get dressed, make the 1 hour commute in order to get to work at 6:00 am. I'd get the shop ready, shuffle a bit of paperwork and open the doors at 7:00 am. We closed at 6:00 pm and I'd usually get out of there by 7:00 pm, have a 1 hour commute home, eat supper, take a shower and start all over again a few hours later! Then when we had to start opening Saturdays (to keep up with the imports), I only had Sunday off and that was usually tied up with yard work and stuff I needed to do around the house. I finally got burned out and decided to "slow down". I sold out, moved to Florida and started my own small business.

    BUT ... it didn't take long before I fell back into the same old routine. I bought more equipment, hired more people and was then working more hours than I'd worked before! I had a frigging pager in those days and was on call 24/7. I'll admit, I was making good money ... made $125,000 my FIRST year in business (and those were 1980's dollars). In a little town like this with it's lower cost of living, that was a lot of money, especially considering I was in a town where nobody knew me and I didn't know anybody ... plus it was a new business being built from the ground up! But ... I'd buy toys to play with and they'd just sit around gathering dust because I had no time to play. I finally did some soul searching, gave all my employees 30 days notice, dropped most of my business, sold most of my equipment and took it over myself. I only took in accounts that were flexible with no specific time schedules. In other words, I'd get to it when I get to it. Sure, I had to tighten my belt a bit, but the accounts I kept were the cream of the crop and I was much happier overall.

    The odd thing is, once I got "sick" and my income went from "comfortable" to next to zilch, I still get by. At first I had no clue how I was going to get by. I had visions of my truck getting repo'd and my house going into foreclosure ... but now Lynn and I are taking vacations! They're admittedly "small", budget type vacations, but we make the most of them.

    Like the article says ... you can cut back and make it work if you really want to. You just have to MAKE it work.

  3. #3
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    that early bird stuff is a hard habit to break. I'm at work typically between 6:30 and 7:00 each morning. There's no way I can finish my work in a regular 8 hour days with all of the distractions so a long time ago I decided I'd rather put my OT in early when nobody else was around than to stay late and listen to my belly rumble. I can usually cut out of work at 5:00 doing it that way and in the summer at least, you still have sunshine to go do fun stuff if you want to.

    BKB

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    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    The early morning before we opened and before most of the employees showed up was about the only time I'd ever get any paperwork done. I've always been an early riser anyway ... so I figured I may as well be working. Odd, now that I'm kinda-sorta retired ... e-Bay is my new job!

  5. #5
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    That ebay thing has a lot of potential. I really like the old ambassadeur pro max bait casting reels, the ones made in the 90's. You can still find them on ebay NIB for great prices. I always thought a guy could make some good money just buying and reselling fishing stuff if he had some good contacts to get new equipment that was out of date. There's gotta be ways to get that stuff from retailers for pennies on the dollar.

    BKB

  6. #6
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Birddog sent me this:

    The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you’re still a rat.
    ~Lily Tomlin


    BKB

  7. #7
    Administrator LJ3's Avatar
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    I think I'm on a similar trajectory as you buddy. My late 40's I started wondering why I always landed in jobs that required me working my ass off. Then I started to realize it was only partially the jobs, and mostly me. My kids paid and are paying a price for lots of weekend work but I'm definitely keeping an eye toward correcting my course and living a life with more balance and priority on family. I don't know if I can do it, but at least I know what seems to be the right thing to do.
    If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.

  8. #8
    Administrator Niner's Avatar
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    Man, you Type A guys kill me. Bitch and moan about the long hours, and love working every second of them.

    Of course being a non-union hourly schlub my whole "career" probably colors my glasses a bit.

    When my daughter was little, and I'd just started working after my stretch in the service... I was working at a place that was only about 15 mins from our house. Di was working almost an hour away. The place I was working at was strictly 40 hours, and we got off at 4:30. Di didn't get off until 5:00......SO..... I would go by the daycare and pick her up, and then start dinner when I got home. By the time Di got home dinner was almost ready. This was when we were living in the VA Beach area.

    After we moved to "A-town", we were living in the burbs. Di got a job in downtown A-town, and I was working at a place about 30-45 mins from home. Same deal. I'd do the pickup at the daycare and start fixing the dinner....only by this time we also had homework to work into the nightly routine. Which got started on, if not DONE by the time Di got home from A-town.

    As the kid got older, I worked at other places.....most of them with zero to some overtime. I worked at one place for a time that had basically "unlimited" overtime, but I limited it due to my responsibilities at the house.

    It seems I was almost always at home by 6:00 all the way through her high school years too.

    After she went off to college, and we moved to "the country"...I got a job with a major test equipment company here in our little burg. Since the staff in the shop was so small, and the work so much.....I worked pretty much a 50 to 60 hour week until I got sick and went out on disability.

    Of course working/living this way also meant we were on a bit of a "budget" during the "growing years". I decided one day that we NEEEEDEDD a computer. There certainly was no money in the budget for that....Hell, I had to work my annual hunting dues in there somehow. Anyway...so I decided I'd just BUILD one. This was circa 1986. In a few weeks, I'd pulled together enough pieces and parts to build a TRS-80 WITH expanded memory. A few years later, I decided that "old" computer with it's cassette tape drive just was not cutting it, so I scrounged and scraped together a bunch of parts and made an 8088 PC complete with a whopper of a 10MB hard drive. ALL from "junk parts" I'd scroundged up.

    I was always fixing something or doing some DIY project at the house. NEVER though about hiring someone to do it.
    One day not TOO long ago, we were at my daughter's house and she was proudly showing her Mom the light fixture she'd installed herownself. Di asked her how she knew how to do that, and she replied "I've watched my DADDY to that a hundred times"!
    My "disability" does not make me "disabled".


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  9. #9
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    As Red Green says, "It pays to be handy if you can't be handsome."

    BKB

  10. #10
    Administrator Niner's Avatar
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    My "disability" does not make me "disabled".


    Cancer Sucks!
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  11. #11
    Administrator LJ3's Avatar
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    Just for the record... I do NOT, and never have liked the hours. But being in IT support roles, it is what it is. The more hours I work, the more pissedererer I become. I'm currently looking for a job with a better work/life balance but so are approximately 5 million other IT guys in this area
    If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.

  12. #12
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Well, to be honest ... I kissed "normal" hours goodbye when I moved up into management. My early years (other than the military) were basically 8-5 type jobs. Prob. is, I was in management since my late 20's (26-27 I think). I got out of the military at 23, so I didn't enjoy normal hours for very long.

  13. #13
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Buckrub's Avatar
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    I don't remember what I did.
    WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.

  14. #14
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckrub View Post
    I don't remember what I did.
    I'm not so sure you even knew what you did when you did it!

  15. #15
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Buckrub's Avatar
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    You're probably right. The most incompetent person that ever lived.
    WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.

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