Insurance Rant

[LJ3]

Saw this on some dudes page on facebook. Thing is, I think most of this is pretty dang accurate. I could be wrong. Pretty sure I myself have heard the majority of these words come out of Obamas piehole.

► He told us if we liked our current insurance plan, we could keep it....LIAR!!
► He told us if we liked our current doctor, we could keep them....LIAR!!
► He told us it would reduce the cost of health care in America....LIAR!!
► He told us buying health insurance would be just like using Amazon....LIAR!!
► He told us insurance premiums would go down an average of $2,500....LIAR!!
► He told us it would cover 40 million uninsured....LIAR!!
► He told us it wouldn't fund abortions....LIAR!!

[Niner]

Oh dude, didn't you hear... He apologized for all that, so now everything's cool again.

NOT!

[Captain]

Don't get me started on that lying POS

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[Thumper]

Oh dude, didn't you hear... He apologized for all that, so now everything's cool again.

NOT!

I watched the news conference where he apologized. He made his usual "apologize, but blame someone else" speech. The a-hole apologized ... THEN said he didn't know there were problems because nobody told him! How many times have we heard that? I'm really surprised he didn't blame George Bush!

[DeputyDog]

Or at least blame it on the horrible situation that the previous administration left them when they took over.

[Big Skyz]

All I know is I don't have a big income. Montana school teachers are ranked in the bottom third as far as salaries go in the nation. I don't live here for the money obviously. With that said, I'm going to take a hit on my insurance starting Jan 1st my rates go up (NOT DOWN) thanks to this complete and total idiot we have for a president!!! This presidency has affected me more on a personal level than any other nit-wit that has ever been in charge. I pay more for gas, ammo, guns, food, and now insurance. I'm trying to think of one really good thing he's done for this country. Sorry drawing a blank on that.

[Captain]

The SOB ain't done nothing good for this country. Starting with when he was running for office the first time. He sat in Rev. Wrights church for 20 years listening to him spewing anti white hate messages and anti American messages and he said he didn't hear any of it. Lier... And he ain't heard or been informed on one thing since. He is a POS of the first order.

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[Penguin]

Lol, it is a damned mess for sure.

But let's be honest, it has been a damned mess for a long, long time. This latest round of fixes just made it a bit worse. Trying to trim around the edges with this system is futile. We're going to have to tear it down. Major surgery so to speak. In the end we will probably end up treating healthcare like a utility. We will probably be forced to by price alone.

Will

[quercus alba]

He is a POS of the first order.

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They all are, some more then others.

A man walks into a bar. He sees a good-looking, smartly dressed woman sitting on the barstool.
He walks up behind her and says, "Hi there, how's it going?"
Having already had a few drinks, she turns around, faces him, looks him straight in the eyes and says, "Listen! I'll screw anybody, any time, anywhere, your place, my place, it doesn't matter.
He says, "No kidding, I'm a politican too. Republican or democrat?"

[Captain]

They all are, some more then others.

QA that where we will disagree. I don't think they all are. I think some truly run and hold office to try to do good or right by Americans.

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[quercus alba]

generalization Capn'. They be few and far between tho

[Buckrub]

2 guys in camp had their insurance cancelled and that company went totally out of business. They are 100% screwed.

And nowhere in any of these discussions has a doctor come on TV and said whether he'd even accept this 3rd rate insurance that may or may not be available.

[Buckrub]

Penguin I gotta call BS.

It wasn't broke for me.

I had insurance that I could afford, that covered every CONSIDERABLE thing wrong with me that every doctor accepted. My self employed friends were covered. That was a great system and The Great Destroyer killed it forever.

Those that didn't have insurance either didn't need or want it or got free care.

I call major BS.

[Chicken Dinner]

Not defending the disaster that is Obamacare, but the freeriders may not have been paying for their care. But, someone was.

[Buckrub]

I repeat....

I realize I was......

But at a rate far less than I now pay and MY coverage eroded.

[Buckrub]

And Hank.....This system won't fix that problem anyway.

The freeloaders still won't pay and still have to receive care by law....free.

Some.....A very few....will not buy it and be fined a measly $95.00.

Others, like my brother, who is not ever going to buy insurance period......can't be fined $95.00 because he hasn't filed 1040 in 30 years and won't. But it doesn't matter because this great new system bailed him out by giving him free medicaid. So instead of me and you paying for ER visit every 5 years we are now paying through the nose every month so he can be covered.

Tell me again One problem this new deal solved.

[Captain]

And Hank.....This system won't fix that problem anyway. The freeloaders still won't pay and still have to receive care by law....free.

100% correct

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[Penguin]

Penguin I gotta call BS.

It wasn't broke for me.

I had insurance that I could afford, that covered every CONSIDERABLE thing wrong with me that every doctor accepted. My self employed friends were covered. That was a great system and The Great Destroyer killed it forever.

Those that didn't have insurance either didn't need or want it or got free care.

I call major BS.

That's just not true. And just saying that someone "has insurance" is meaningless. What is covered? What are the caps? What are the deductibles? Etc. A whole hell of a lot of these guys who are out of insurance now had their insurance cancelled because it was junk insurance. Insurance in name only. Didn't even meet the meager standards that Obamacare instituted.

Catastrophic health care costs are the number one reason for personal bankruptcy in this nation. And this is nothing new. Let that sink in. The NUMBER ONE reason for personal bankruptcy in this nation is having health care costs overwhelm personal finances. And if someone loses their job? Any major health issue at all will completely wipe you out. Unless you have COBRA. And that alone is beyond most people who lose jobs.

And we have what, 40-odd million people without health insurance at all? In America? And who the hell pays for these guys when they end up having a heart attack or a stroke? Or a car accident? Or anything serious at all? Well, after they are bankrupted you and I will. That's who. No this is a racket. An abomination. We pay more per capita taxes to pay for just our retired people than Canada does for their entire population.

The answer, as I said, is obvious. If you truly do believe that the free market can produce better results then you better get busy. In the end this system will get reformed or it will get scrapped. It will not be out of ideology it will be out of necessity. In a world where goods are traded across borders we simply will not be able to afford the most inefficient healthcare system in the world.

Will

[Buckrub]

If you think that all the uninsured were poor people that deeply desired health insurance but we're denied by the evil system, then I believe you have drunk from a koolaid trough of which I won't sip.

And no one can "get busy" and fix the private system. It's been destroyed.

And that terrible inefficient system served most of us well and was jerked from us.

Agghhhh.

[Buckrub]

Willy

If you are right and I am wrong, tell me how this new system fixes that?

It doesn't. See above.

[Penguin]

It served ~you~ well.

It served ~me~ well.

It even served ~a lot~ of folks well.

But for this nation as a whole it has been a catastrophe! We devote more of our national income to health care than any nation on earth. And as a nation have less to show for it than nations that spend half as much. It doesn't seem to matter what system our competitors employ as each and every system they use garners better national results at a much lower cost.

That is inefficiency. In bold type.

We just simply cannot afford the luxury of having a system that costs so much and adds so little to the national landscape. It is one of the reasons we are going bankrupt. Each and every year our household income is stagnant and our health care costs go up substantially. We can't afford the graft. We can't afford the corruption. We cannot afford the monopolies and insulation from competition.

In the end it will be cold hard numbers that force us to change. We are being beat on cost by everyone in the world. These costs, not some imagined communist boogeyman, will be the reason we abandon this system.

Will

[Buckrub]

You are the smartest man I know. But I disagree.

[Penguin]

I'm not the smartest, just the most outspoken.

But I am saying this not to pick a fight but as a warning. Healthcare is a subject that can get folks absolutely bonkers. I'm seeing movement on the opinion of healthcare and it is not what I see conservatives expecting. People are extremely upset about the ACA but are equally upset at the overall trajectory of it with or without the latest tweak.

If conservatives want to bring their ideas to the table now is the time. Standing back and criticizing the current law while implicitly accepting the old system won't buy you much time. A whole hell of a lot of folks consider the old system to be equally broken. And I'm not talking about starry eyed young people or hangers on. I'm seeing real live businessmen and skilled workers who are just plain fed up.

The costs have got to go down. If you want to use market forces to do that then now is the time to start putting forth real live proposals. I'm not sure stalking horses will do anything more than guarantee that we go to a single payer system in the long term.

Will

[Buckrub]

New procedures and drugs cost a fortune. That's life.

The percent of people served well by the old system far outweigh in numbers and productivity. ......by an order of magnitude. ....The percent served by this new system.

Rant all u want......but if this is the fix to your pet set of problems, then the world is doomed.

It appears to my feeble brain that the goal of all this was to eliminate private insurance companies and let the Great Nanny State take care of us all.

[Penguin]

New procedures and drugs cost a fortune. That's life...


It appears to my feeble brain that the goal of all this was to eliminate private insurance companies and let the Great Nanny State take care of us all.

That depends on who you are. The way the system works now WE pay for all the research to come up with those new procedures and drugs. For the whole world. WE pay their expenses and THEY get these new drugs and procedures. A hell of a lot of them specifically won't allow payment for all this fancy, expensive research. And not only do we allow this goat fuck to continue but we get all of these free market ideologues defending the current arrangement and giving us lectures on respecting intellectual property.

And subsidies? Nanny state? Do you know that currently the only single type of compensation that an employer can give to a worker tax free is health care? And the only single type of compensation that a worker can take from his employer tax free is health care? We subsidize the system on both ends of the transaction. To the tune of over 250 Billion USD every, single, year.

I disagree with the sentiment that this was done to get the Nanny state involved. This was an attempt to tweak the system without making waves. Trying to make an omelette without breaking eggs. Trying to figure out some way to get more people insured without cutting profit margins for doctors and hospital chains and insurance companies and every other swinging dick getting their share of the graft. It didn't work. It won't work. At least in my humble opinion.

Will

[Captain]

How is making all those Elderly men carry and pay for maternity issuance a good thing?

What Will the Obummer decide next that we had to buy?

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[Penguin]

It's not a good thing. I'm not saying that what we got with ACA is correct/just/right/etc.

But those type of things pale in comparison with what the rest of us, as taxpayers and policy holders, have to pony up in order to pay for all the uninsured. Cost shifting makes this type of thing seem like stealing company pencils. And I am sick and tired of all of these John Wayne types who refuse to buy insurance and then end up costing the rest of us a fortune when they inevitably get sick.

If I drew up a plan from scratch that is the first thing I would change: Everybody pays something. There should be some kind of a minimum payment that is enough to get everyone interested in taking care of themselves. Period. The way the system works now we have all the wrong influences. It pushes people to not care what something costs or how they take care of themselves.

Will

[DeputyDog]

Who should have to pay for the research and testing?

Doesn't any business, whether it be the auto industry or electronic industry or whatever, pass the cost of their R&D onto their consumers? And shouldn't that company that develops a new drug or procedure receive the benefit of their work? You know that first hand. When you were working for the race team, if you developed something that would help your cars, did you run out and share it with every other team in the paddock?

Do you think that if someone refuses to buy coverage or insufficient coverage for what's wrong with them, we should just refuse them treatment? Or how about cutting people off from treatment once they get to a certain age since their usefullness to society is past and they are becoming a drain on everyone else?

[Penguin]

Who should have to pay for the research and testing?

Ideally the people who pay are those who use the products. That is what I am saying. WE as US health care consumers pay for all of that research that the rest of the world consumes. They allow very little of those costs to be passed on. Which is one of the main reasons that drugs are so much cheaper in Canada or England or France or practically any other nation that you could name. They refuse to pay for it. They do it by various methods but in the end they slice out a very large part of the R&D costs. Which leaves you know who to pick up the tab.

And we call that Free Trade. ~argh~

Will

[Buckrub]

So should we invade them?

Or keep producing and paying for neat stuff?

Which?