An example of why I distrust unions...

[Niner]

http://www.redstate.com/2014/02/19/u...tanooga-plant/

Union Intimidation Continues at Volkswagen’s Chattanooga Plant

Unions like to claim that management frequently intimidates workers against organizing. The reality, in today’s world, is that management virtually always has a hostile NLRB breathing down its neck at the slightest sign of any technical violation, whereas union intimidation and harassment (which is also prohibited by law) goes largely ignored by the regulatory authorities. A perfect case in point is the plight of workers at the new Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, who recently overwhelmingly voted to reject unionization despite illegal union harassment.

The head of VW’s union in Germany is at it again, threatening both to refuse further expansion in the entire South and also to block production of an additional VW model at the Chattanooga plant.

These statements, made by a person who sits on VW’s board, are just as patently illegal as would be equivalent statements made by management threatening loss of jobs if unionization occurred................SEE LINK FOR WHOLE STORY.

[airbud7]

I have a Uncle that works for nissan north America(great company) in Tennessee where the union tries this same crap...

They don't want the union...Period...

[BarryBobPosthole]

The workers live in a right to work state. they chose not to unionize. End of story. VW can make whatever business decisions it wants to based on the results of that election and it isn't illegal or immoral. And the union didn't invite the election, the company did and invited the UAW in to hold the election.

I don't get the intimidation story at all.

BKB

[Buckrub]

That be's your glasses. They be's union colored. Not sure if that's rose, or crysanthemum, but it's one or 'tother.

I'd sure hate to own a business and have any swinging yahoo on earth try to tell me what to do "or else"..............

[BarryBobPosthole]

I'm not pro union. I'm for anything the people who work for a living care to vote for. Anything else isn't anybody elses' bidness. That's why I think Right to Work is such a good idea. The only companies that have unions today typically deserve them.

BKB

[Buckrub]

The people who work for a living is who votes in the union. Then the union tries to tell the company owners how to run their company, or else.

[BarryBobPosthole]

then I reckon the company should mind its p's and q's and the workers won't need a union. People will do the right thing if you give the a chance. Like those workers at the VW plant did. They live in a right to work state and they voted not to unionize. I say give them a choice and stay the hell out of their business, either pro or anti-union.

BKB

[Buckrub]

OK.

But is that attitude ok for workers/unions and NOT for company owners????

[BarryBobPosthole]

I suppose we could have the government make unions illegal. that seems to be what you want to have happen. that's getting government out of our lives for sure.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

And by the way, if you will check your stories some place besides some right wing blog, you'll see that it wasn't the UAW that was intimidating the workers who were voting on this thing. It was the GOP lawmakers in Tennessee that were threatening to withdraw tax incentives to VW for building that plant there if the workers voted in the union. Now who is threatening the worker's with their very jobs?

Part of the issue is european unions and companies have a very different relationship that what exists in the US and I don't think VW really studied the issue as much as they should have before they invited UAW in.

BKB

[Buckrub]

And by the way, if you will check your stories some place besides some right wing blog, you'll see that it wasn't the UAW that was intimidating the workers who were voting on this thing. It was the GOP lawmakers in Tennessee that were threatening to withdraw tax incentives to VW for building that plant there if the workers voted in the union. Now who is threatening the worker's with their very jobs?

Part of the issue is european unions and companies have a very different relationship that what exists in the US and I don't think VW really studied the issue as much as they should have before they invited UAW in.

BKB

I don't read right wing blogs.

I didn't read this one at all. I am responding only to your comments.

I don't want the government involved, and how you concluded such a thing is beyond me. I don't want unions illegal. I want company owners to run their company any way they choose, and workers can go get another job or start their own company if they're unhappy. My wish is for personal responsibility and no one helps you with any law, either way.

You said that you were for workers making their own decisions, and I simply asked a simple question, as to whether you would allow that same logic to apply to company owners. From there, you somehow jumped to some conclusion that I want government involved and I want unions to be illegal. Jumping to conclusions is the only exercise some folks get (I made that one up, feel free to use it).

[Chicken Dinner]

Well, in this case, the company owners decided they wanted a Union and the politicians decided they knew better. I'm glad we're all in agreement that the unions weren't the problem here.

[Penguin]

Looks like I will step in it on this forum too.

This whole thing is a fine example of how we in the US see everything through our cultural lens. Even when it doesn't work. Like here.

That guy "threatening" the folks in TN with no more auto lines or expansion isn't just the "head of VW's union in Germany". He sits on the board of directors. He is one of the 20 member panel that decides where plant expansion and line allocation occurs. IOW he is VW management.

So here is the deal, when Bob Corker told these guys in TN that he had secret top level information that said that if they would only reject the UAW they would get new lines? He was lying. Not only that but a "no" vote put them at odds with the rest of the VW organization. Add to that the threat by the governor to remove tax incentives that were used to entice VW there in the first place? What you have is one half of the management of VW who are very pissed off right now.

They aren't talking about threats, they are talking about retaliation. Big difference.

These politicians in TN see everything through some weird Marxian lens where everything is capital/management versus labor. In this case that doesn't fit because in VW's case management is labor. At least half of it. And when they located the plant down there they obviously expected TN to adopt the management apparatus that the rest of their worldwide operations have. TN has refused. That puts them against the rest of the organization. And guess what, the rest of the organization will win this one.

These TN pols threatened the wrong bunch and will probably watch that plant die a slow death because of it.

Will

[Chicken Dinner]

Will, you made me go look which I swore off after the whole Masonic devil worshipper thread. Good stuff, but not even close yet.

[Penguin]

It's a very unique situation Hank. I don't know that I have ever seen one like it.

You have the political apparatus of an entire state being brought to bear on a plant vote for unionization. The management of the company itself is a hybrid split evenly between management and labor. And yet one of the most powerful political figures in the state comes out saying he has secret knowledge that a "yes" vote will mean no more expansion. In reality he has no such thing and the real management of the company, half of which we would call union labor, views his interference as an insult to them. Then you have the governor threatening to pull their tax breaks if they attempt to employ the management style they have at every other plant in the world.

I have to wonder what, exactly, these geniuses thought the reaction from VW would be?

And while I'm on the subject, where the hell has the news media been in all of this? Obviously, conservative and liberal media outlets have been just as clueless as the Tennessee politicos. For god's sake, this story when it has been covered has been wrong on all angles. I don't honestly think any of them thought this was anything other than a normal union/labor squabble.

Will

[Captain]

Then you have the governor threatening to pull their tax breaks if they attempt to employ the management style they have at every other plant in the world. I have to wonder what, exactly, these geniuses thought the reaction from VW would be?

If the state and VW made an agreement in the beginning not to bring that style management model to the state of Tennessee years ago when the plant was built and the state gives tax breaks for the company, then I certainly can see where the governor and state legislatures (either Democrat or Republican) would be within reason to make such a threat to withdraw tax breaks.
I know state and local governments both make concessions to attract big businesses and jobs to their areas. However there are expectations on both sides. It could be the state feels this type management (union) would hurt the state in the long run and discussed this originally.
You and I neither know the real behind the scene story that makes this appear so odd on the surface.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Penguin]

Could be Larke.

But I would really have to wonder if that is legal. I have some doubts that it would be. And I have very grave doubts that a panel of that is half union members would have even considered such a thing.

In any event it was a very interesting situation. And one of the most striking examples of improper political posturing I have seen.

Will