Are you all shook up this morning?
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Are you all shook up this morning?
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A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis?
BKB
Duh ... P-hole hasn't had his morning cup of coffee yet. It's all that dang fracking I tell ya'!
At least eight quakes have rattled neighborhoods and nerves across Oklahoma.
http://www.news9.com/story/25210835/...hakes-oklahoma
Oh, that's old news. I don't dare mention it on Goodhunting because it might be construed as something liberal and slamming the oil industry. We've already set a record this year with the number of earthquakes and its only April. Its all a coincidence though.
BKB
Nothing to see here - move along...
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Raoul Duke
Why do you always slam Big Oil and not Big Telecom??
Ok, wait......
never mind.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Last time I checked Big Telecom never caused earthquakes in my home state.
BKB
Well they do in many places!!!!!
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Wait.
The answer was supposed to be "Neither does Big Oil"...........
I think...
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
I'm just bitter. Horizontal drilling and fracking is booming in Oklahoma and that's when the earthquakes started, when that really took off. We're charging a 1% gross production tax on horizontal drilling and our teachers haven't gotten a raise in seven years and we're 49th in school funding per pupil. North Dakota is charging 11% and is investing in their education system and it'll pay off. When even a paltry raise in gross production taxes was proposed the Republicans flocked to the rescue and said we'd lose the jobs created bythe oil industry and they'd go somewhere else. As if the shale formations are everywhere. It pisses me off.
BKB
Barry,
The first oil well that was fracture treated was in Grant County, Kansas. The treatment occurred in 1949. Directional drilling, which includes horizontal drilling, was also fairly common (in certain specific conditions, such as the Wilmington Oil Field in California ) by the 1940s.
In my career, I have designed, conducted, witnessed or permitted between 8000 and 10000 fracture treatments. Not one of those has caused measurable earthquakes. In fact, unless there has been new data in the last couple of years, there is not evidence that fracture treating, anywhere in the world, has caused a single earthquake.
The research that has lead to you incorrect conclusion in based, not on fracture treating, but on the disposal of salt water produced along with the oil and gas. In one case, in Youngstown, Ohio, one single disposal well took over 100,000 cubic meters of water in about 18 months. This well was completed in what was essential solid rock; less than 1% porosity. The well also intersected a fault in the injection interval. The water forced the fault faces apart, which then allowed excess movement; AKA earthquakes.
The logical train of though tying earthquake to fracture treating goes (1) earthquakes were facilitated by injecting brine into fault zones; (2) the brine needed disposal because we produced it along with oil and gas; (3) we produced oil and gas from wells that have been fracture treated. ERGO fracture treatments caused earthquakes.
Let's expand this a couple of more steps: (A) we produce more oil and gas because people desire to use more; (B) some of that petroleum is used by people who burn fuel to go fishing. Eureka! We finally reached the correct conclusion; those selfish, ignorant fishermen caused the earthquakes.
This last is, of course. tongue in cheek, but it demonstrates the type of analysis often quoted by anti-petroleum activists.
But it does suggest a viable means for individuals to protest; simply cut petroleum based fuels.
Herb, the water injection is part of the process is it not. I don't care if its Calgon the're injecting, its a part of the process they use. I know when fracking started beause I have researched it. I also inow that the oil business people are lying when they say that the number of earthquakes we're having is strictly a 'coincidence'. If its not caused by something in the horizontal drilling and fracking process, then pray tell me what it is. And don't try to tell me coincidence. Ad also don't try to tell me the problem is with the consumer and not the producer in this case.
BKB
BKB
I will! I will!
It's all a coincidence.
The problem is with the consumer, not the producer.
There. Anything else while I'm at it?
Ah... consumer do drive producers
No consumers no need....
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A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
Kinda like the drug trade huh? I will say, oil is a "drug" in this country.
I'm curious BBP. When did the water injection part of the process begin? Is there a direct correlation of dates when water injection began and earthquakes became more frequent?
If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.
Yes but blaming consumers for the practices of a producers is one of the reason conservatives, big corporations and capitalism leave a bad taste in lots of people's mouths.Originally Posted by Captain
If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.
I have no problem with oil companies drilling in Oklahoma. I just think the stae should get their fair share out of it.
One per cent was an incentivized tax rate to attract those companies to do their exploration here when that sort of incentive was needed and much of of the technology was new. An incentivized tax rate isn't needed now. We charge much lessthan our neighbor states.
And to say that injecting waste water from fracking, which is the part that causes the earthquakes, isn't part of the fracking process is just stupid. They wouldn't be doing it if they weten't fracking in the first damned place. The last shoe hasn't dropped on this by a long stretch. The earthquakes aren't causing a lot of property damage now, but when they do, folks will pay attention. And it ain't just water they're injecting in these wells, its incredibly toxic stuff. That's why its going into deep injection wells.
Believe whatever the hell you want to. I could give a shit.
BKB
That's a generalized statement from a fired up redneck Okie. I'm looking for dates that correlate the two things. I know he knows them, he was prolly just knee deep in clear likker.
If we all threw our problems in a pile, and you saw everyone else's problems-- you'd take yours back.
Uh oh! That's how P-hole sounds just before he buys a new truck. Ya' think he's looking at boats now?
Didn't see your post Len. Here's a link that has some information on timing. Its nekkid.
BKB
http://www.thenation.com/blog/178449...akes-oklahoma#
Oh, and here's another list of places in the world that just don't understand the science, Herb. The collective dumbasses probably also believe that its the meltdown of the cores in the Fukishima reactors that's the problem when in reality the pollution is actually coming from the water they use to cool them down and keep them from melting through the center of the dad gum earth.
Arkansas, by the way Bucky, also banned it around where you live. They're dumbasses too. No wait, they didn't ban fracking, they banned the injection of wastewater into wells. There's probably a shitload of fracking going on since there's no harm caused by fracking at all. Science proves it.
http://keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-fracking/
BKB
I hate oil. AND fuel. I wish they'd quit drilling and quit refining, totally. Messing up stuff! Ugh. We don't need no stinking oil. Everyone that hates it so, needs to stop using it, and I'm stopping today!!! I hate the stuff!!
(We cuss farmers with our mouth full, and 'big oil' with our tanks full). And that's all I got to say about that!
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
It prolly is because that's all you ever friggin say on the topic. And that's about the dumbest response I've ever heard. I said at the beginning I wasn't against drilling for oil in Oklahoma. I live in an oil rich state for chrissakes. But it needs to be done responsibly. It ain't being done responsibly now. Its a free for all. and for a lousy 1 per cent.
BKB
Best response on this thread....
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A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
So, it would be okay at say .... the NoDak rate of 11%? Especially if a good portion went to teachers?
It's kinda funny to me to hear someone tell me "that's all you say on this topic".
Whatever. Drill, don't drill, whatever. Arkansas is awful at 'severance tax' too.......worst in the world for gas and timber, of which we have an abundance. But I guess my main priority is not "how can I benefit the government" from thinking on these topics...........
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Thump, I don't know if 11% is the right number or not. That works for North Dakota, it may not work for Oklahoma. I kindof think 4 or 5% is about right for Oklahoma because that's what neighboring states in teh region charge. Some are as high a 7% but I don't think it should be necessarily that high unless it generates an expense for the state. Whatever tax revenue that comes in ought to be to responsibly manage injection wells (and thus FRACKING HERB). There's 10,000 of them in my state and that was as of 2010. They're injecting hundreds of millions of gallons of contaminated and in some cases radioactive salt water in the ground in Oklahoma EVERY MONTH. http://www.ogs.ou.edu/MEETINGS/Prese...B12/MURRAY.pdf
The rest needs to go into the general tax fund and schools need to be funded appropriately from that. I don't subscribe to the theory that you tie school funding to industry any more than you'd tie it to the lottery. That's just a bald faced lie and is embarassing. It never ever works out the way its said it will when it's proposed.
Anyway, We're doing a lot of stuff at a very high rate in my state and we don't have any kind of consensus on what the consequences are. Herb can blather and Bucky can blow, but that's the truth of it. And we need to slow down and make the industry pay for getting the answers before we commit to doing it at any more volume. that's like driving down the interstate with blinders on if you ask me. But nobody did.
BKB
And Herb, from today's Tulsa World. I know there's a lot people that are probably smarter than Ohio geologists. But lots of folks are coming to different conclusions than you have about fracking and earthquakes.
Ohio geologists link small quakes to fracking
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Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:00 am | Updated: 6:28 am, Sat Apr 12, 2014.
By AP Wire Service | 0 comments
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Geologists in Ohio have for the first time linked earthquakes in a geologic formation deep under the Appalachians to hydraulic fracturing, leading the state to issue new permit conditions Friday in certain areas that are among the nation's strictest.
A state investigation of five small tremors last month in the Youngstown area, in the Appalachian foothills, found the injection of sand and water that accompanies hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, in the Utica Shale may have increased pressure on a small, unknown fault, said State Oil & Gas Chief Rick Simmers. He called the link "probable."
While earlier studies had linked earthquakes in the same region to deep-injection wells used for disposal of fracking wastewater, this marks the first time tremors in the region have been tied directly to fracking, Simmers said. The five seismic events in March couldn't be easily felt by people.
The oil and gas drilling boom targets widely different rock formations around the nation, so the Ohio findings may not have much relevance to other areas other than perhaps influencing public perception of fracking's safety. The types of quakes connected to the industry are generally small.
Gerry Baker, associate executive director of the Interstate Oil and Gas Commission, said state regulators across the nation will study the Ohio case for any implications for the drilling industry. A consortium of states has already begun discussions.
Fracking involves pumping huge volumes of water, sand and chemicals underground.
I ain't blowing, but there's blowing going on.
I never said don't study anything. I said it's hypocritical to fill your tank and whine about the way it's done. And it surely does seem to me that A) you believe I have NO problem with fracking whatsoever, which is a mind reading assumption on your part, and B) you say it needs study, but you are just as much against it, it seems to me, as you THINK that I'm for it. If one is bad without study, why is not the other?
Why the edge to all these discussions, also? Stab, jab, dance, and whistle.
I'm going east. See y'all.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
One of the biggest consequences of fracking, no matter where it is happening, is the contamination of groundwater. When people can ignite the water coming from their taps because it is so contaminated with natural gas as a result of fracking then, Houston, we have a problem! I suggest watching a documentary called Gasland if you want to see the impact of fracking.
We are seeing the same headlong rush to exploit our oil and gas up here with little or no regard for the future. Get it all out of the ground as fast and as cheaply as possible and to hell with the damage that our grandkids will have to deal with. Shame on us!
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