Establishing "gun free zones" (like schools) has only made it possible for criminals to know where to go on a shooting spree....
It's mind numbing to me the logic of making schools and colleges gun free zones somehow makes them safer....
When it's been PROVEN time and time again that just the opposite is true.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
It's like the Libs thinking that if we simply "ban guns", it'll put an end to ALL shootings. These things sure seem to happen in multiples, don't they? Seems the past few years, schools are the big thing for nutbags to shoot up. They seem to change from time to time. Heck, use the phrase "going postal" around someone "younger" and they'll give you a blank stare. Who knows what the next "fad" will be.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
Yeah, they don't seem to go to a police station to do a shooting. Well, except for that one they just had in PA.
"Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."
Yes, we all know that there were no school shootings before they were made 'gun free' zones.
Larke, I'm sorry but that kind of logic works about as well as its opposite number, which you're complaining about. Having guns at schools and churches and so on won't keep people from doing these shootings. In fact, there is no legislation that anyone could do to prevent them. But there is one thing that 'cons' have wrong for sure too, since you all want to blame everything on people's political beliefs, and that is that if you gave every single American a Saturday night special it wouldn't make one whit of difference in the amount of crime done with guns. It'd be nice if politics was the cause of all of this but it ain't politics, its the moral sickness that is in our American society as a whole. Our politics, like our crime, are symptoms of that problem and not the problem itself.
At least that's this 'liberal's' opinion.
BKB
Posthole, you and your way of thinking are 100% wrong and ARE the problem.
Just answer me one question.
What stopped the event in Florida early this morning.
A GUN
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
Posthole, every study done legitimately has proven that every area where gun ownership has risen, crime has decreased. Not the opposite.
Technology created guns. It created computers and cars and other stuff.
If you think having a gun won't help protect you, that's fine. But you don't get to tell me it won't protect me. I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy and bulky.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
BBP, you have opened my eyes to a lot of things and different ways of thinking. Heck, I've even changed my mind a time or two because of your more liberal type thoughts. However, in this case I stand 100% with Larke, you couldn't be more wrong. I guaran-darn-tee you that if a shooting occurred in my school, and I had a weapon to shoot back with, that the event would come to a complete halt. It would happen much sooner than if I have to wait for the police to arrive, and a LOT less people would lose their life in the process. As it sits right now, my plan for such events is to get the heck out of my room/school, and run like Hell, because showing up unarmed to a gun fight is NOT on my to-do list!!!
Last edited by Big Skyz; 11-20-2014 at 10:56 AM.
Removing double post
Good point BS.
Posty is in fact, and I don't mind saying so out loud, one of the smartest men I've ever had the pleasure to meet. Well read, well thought out, just smart. It's undeniable.
But, it's that very fact that makes some of his political views a head scratcher. This one is simply clear, via the laws of physics and the universe. Yet, he can't see it. I have tried to envision this point from his view. I honestly have. I can't get there. The fact that a man MUCH smarter than I can do so, makes me scratch my head.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Y'all need to calm the F down for one.
Yes, this gunman at FSU was stopped by a gun. A policeman with a gun. Not a citizen, not a teacher, not a student, but a policeman, which is who should have guns in those places. There's no evidence ANYWHERE that this gunman chose to do this shooting there, or any other place there's been a shooting for that matter, because it was a 'gun free zone'.
You seem to think that because you believe you should be armed, that others shouldn't be able to declare legal gun free zones. So if a church or a school doesn't want to allow firearms, you think this makes them fair game for shooters. You don't want to give anyone that choice. I say that is as much an infringement on liberty as banning the damned things.
If you feel safe carrying your piece, then that's fine. But if voters want to make their churches or schools or other public places gun free zones except for law enforcement, then I believe they have the right to do that.
BKB
Fine.
Then I have the right to ignore their "gun free" zones, so that I'll be safe. Police ain't gonna keep me safe, sir.
I am not trying to stop crime, which as you say will occur no matter what. I'm trying to stop criminals.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
First off, I NEVER said having a gun wouldn't protect you. I personally believe that you have a ton of overconfidence as to how much protection it actually gives you but that's another topic for another day. What I did say is that if you totally eliminated gun free zones, tha these shootings at schools and other public places would neither be eliminated nor reduced. and I said THAT in response to the idiotic statement that Thumper made that liberal politics is the reason we have these shootings. A person doesn't have to be a liberal to not want people in public schools armed to the teeth. You want the janitor at your public schools to carry a piece then more power to you. I don't. That doesn't make you conservative, that doesn't make me liberal. It simply puts us in opposite sides of what we think will keep these shootings from happening. But seemingly, y'all seem to think that liberal politics is the fucking root of all evil and it pisses me off. I swear it's like playing cards with my sister's kids.
BKB
Bucky not only do you have the right you have the obligation if you so choose to protect yourself and others in a gun free (puke) zone....Originally Posted by Buckrub
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
I get your point.
Gun carrying will not stop the crime from occurring.
But gun carrying might stop it from harming ME! Or those around ME! And that's all I can control, short of convincing folks via the internet of the error of their ways, a veritable impossibility! Thus, I control what I can control. And I say that in opposition to your statement that if everyone carried, these crimes would not be reduced one iota. The initial occurrences would not, but that obfuscates the issue. The continued proliferation of EACH one would indeed be curtailed.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
See...you said this:
But there is one thing that 'cons' have wrong for sure too, since you all want to blame everything on people's political beliefs, and that is that if you gave every single American a Saturday night special it wouldn't make one whit of difference in the amount of crime done with guns.
Which is what caused us to jump.
Because of course it would make a whit of difference.........we can make the difference in a perp killing fifty vs. one or two. Those lives matter to me. And you are wrong in that statement, and we said so.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Let's see for starters posthole, Jeanne Assam had a pistol in her pocketbook when she attended Church services, when a man walked in and shot and killed 4 people in the church. She drew her gun and ADVANCED on the shooter and shot and killed him....
Saving God knows how many lives. Thank God she didnt check her gun in the gun free zone.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
You are being pretty narrow minded on this one. We don't have local law enforcement. The absolute closest officers are 20 miles away. So you are telling me that since you think the gun free zone is a good idea I should rely on law enforcement to save the day? I am sorry but you are simply completely wrong.
Right, and she wasn't just a parishoner, she was part of the church security team and was asked by the church to carry a firearm.
I suppose though, God only protects those who protect themselves just like he only provides only for those who provide for themselves. How Christlike it is to have armed deacons.
BKB
Amen.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
You seem to think it matters WHO has the gun that stopped the event. It don't make a twit in Hell WHO had the gun. If you want to wait around on a police officer to stop someone from hurting you or your family members out in public I certainly support your choice. But I can tell you from personal experience 30 seconds is a lifetime in waiting on help, much less 10 or 20 minutes.
under our form of Government we the people have the right to defend ourselves by being armed. It's not up to the government to decide when and where I can defend myself. I can and will defend myself and love ones where ever I am.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
I'll be very honest with a good friend, Posty.
I have read and re-read all of your posts here. I cannot summarize what your position is, exactly, on this issue.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Exodus 22:2-3 tells us: "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."
Now, that's a LONG time before Christ, but you've told me in the past that you think the Old Testament still applies. So??? Does it say or imply "and he is struck by a policeman only"?
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Hey, I have no issue with schools or churches or whatever public place wanting to hire their own security. Its like Troy said in his post, every situation has its own needs. If Montana public schools needs armed protection and it isn't nearby, then I think its a fine idea to hire armed security. And that goes for any state. I don't think though, its a fine idea to just allow open carry (or concealed for that matter) for any Tom Dick or Harry who happens to be in that school. You DO realize that what you're saying would make it perfectly legal for any parent or guardian to come into that school fully armed any time they wanted. And then sit, armed, across the table from a teacher to discuss little Johnny's performance in school? You really think that's a grand idea? Sorry, I don't see it that way. there are other ways to address the issue other than simply arming everyone. Those other ways never make it to the table because those ideas are viewed as 'liberal'.
I'm tired of this topic just like I'm tired of getting slammed for my views on it. I'm as big a second amendment supporter as anyone but somehow that isn't enough. I'm not conservative enough I guess.
Good luck solving it with more guns.
BKB
I can. His position is he think it's OK for the Government to declare an area Gun Free zone. And folks cannot carry a gun in there.
He also says that people will be people and some folks will continue to kill folks regardless of the law. (And I agree with that point)
To that I say the IF the ladder statement is true and the guys that will break the law and carry a gun into a Gun Free Zone for the purpose of killing folks, then All the law is doing is making sure there are no GOOD people there with a gun to stop him...
And if he sees anything wrong with that statement he is wacko....
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
I never said the old testament applies to anything. You're the one who keeps claiming there's a new covenant yet keeps quoting the old testament. Just like ye olde ten commandments. they don't count no more either, unless of course we're trying to appeal to conservative voters.
BKB
OK, then here's what Christ said.......
And he said to them, "When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors.' For what is written about me has its fulfillment." And they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." And he said to them, "It is enough." (Luke 22:35-38, ESV)
Sounds like everyone is supposed to have a weapon, to me. You got one, Red?
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Whether I got one, where I keep it, and what it is ain't nobody's business but mine.
BKB
Correct!!
Same for me. Even in a Gun Free Zone!
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
And by the way Big Sky, the reverse is true as well. I've learned more shit here than Carter's got little liver pills! And don't ever think I don't listen to y'all cause I do. Otherwise, how would I know the best way to hang a deer is head up!
BKB
[QUOTE="BarryBobPosthole;49036"]Hey, I have no issue with schools or churches or whatever public place wanting to hire their own security. Its like Troy said in his post, every situation has its own needs. If Montana public schools needs armed protection and it isn't nearby, then I think its a fine idea to hire armed security. And that goes for any state.[\QUOTE]
Why have to hire people. There are people already there. Good people.
[QUOTE="BarryBobPosthole;49036"]I don't think though, its a fine idea to just allow open carry (or concealed for that matter) for any Tom Dick or Harry who happens to be in that school. You DO realize that what you're saying would make it perfectly legal for any parent or guardian to come into that school fully armed any time they wanted. And then sit, armed, across the table from a teacher to discuss little Johnny's performance in school? You really think that's a grand idea?[\QUOTE]
Yes. Why would it not be????
[QUOTE="BarryBobPosthole;49036"]Sorry, I don't see it that way. there are other ways to address the issue other than simply arming everyone[\QUOTE]
Yep bigger government and more people on the payroll. We the people need to look after we the people. Not let the Government do it. That's mostly what's wrong now.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
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