Dang! I've been REAL busy, BUT .....

[Thumper]

Cappy;

And Bucky's point is valid. If you don't agree or support the decision you are viewed differently.

Viewed differently by whom? Liberals? What do you ... or anyone here care about that? You could say the same thing about the "right to bear arms" issue. I know people who think I'm off the rails and a total nut-bag because I have guns in my house ... my "Northern California" brother is one of them.

And Bucky, you've bailed and I was up until 4:00 am working on my eBay store (typical end of month stuff), so I'm beat anyway. There were no accusations ... I simply keep asking WHY you give a shit about the issue? All I wanted to know is why you feel the way you do. There has never been an answer ... only dancing. So, I have to start assuming. There is no question you have your head locked into the Bible, so that's the most obvious conclusion (for me). But, you dance around the subject and don't approach it, so I go back to why? And on what do you base you opposition on something that doesn't affect you in any way? That's all. Now I'm weary. I was simply trying to understand. It reminds me of a buddy of mine who will not touch pork. When I ask him why, he says because pigs are nasty and roll around in pig shit all day. When I ask him if he's ever looked at the hind end of a cow and what dribbles down their legs, or looked to see what chickens walk around in all day, it's no biggie. He simply has it in his head pigs are nasty. No other reason. I guess I just always like to know WHY somebody feels the way they do. It's a bad habit of mine. I'm bailing along with ya' becaue I agree, we're doing nothing but .

[Thumper]

Ha ha, new blood. I guess I can get back to my end of month obligations and just check in from time to time to see what the two Master SD'ers have to say now.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, the whole reason I asked is that every news article both pro and con posts comments by people that seem to mean that they are certain it is either a states rights issue or not. I'm not so sure I'm that certain or even why they are.

And to follow that thought a little further down the bunny trail, if per the cons, if it so plainly a states rights issue then why did they wait for the decision to come down to all the sudden claim it is? Wouldn't the time for coming out with that argument have been when the court took it up to decide to begin with?

BKB

[Buckrub]

Jim, I'm not mad. I got bored telling you WHY over and over and you saying I didn't.

STATES RIGHTS. Best I can say. PLEASE try reading the words I type. The answer is there. I didn't bail. Bite all of me all over.

Whether homosexuality is wrong is ANOTHER topic, another time. Why I CARE about the SCOTUS decision is STATES RIGHTS.

Don't be obtuse.

I got lots going on too. I didn't 'bail', I just gave flipping up!

[Buckrub]

I do not think you read any of my responses. Now that I read your last, clearly you assumed my answers were biblical in reason.

I swear.

I too am tired. Bed at 10:30, up at 1:45. Long story. I got two of my family in surgery today, two of my family on airplanes, two of my family driving 900 miles with a trailer full of stuff, and I have things to do too. But I have read your stuff.

It's just hard to argue with someone who totally doesn't listen, then says that's it's me that isn't listening.

Just read all this one more time. I've said SIX times the reason for my being upset with this.

[BarryBobPosthole]

But you haven't said why you this this particular issue is one that is in the jurisdiction of the states.

What if the court decided marijuana should be legalized? Would you consider that a states rights issu or a federal one? Or for that matter should ANY drug use be considered a state or federal issue?

I'm not being difficult. I just want to know the criteria.

BKB

[No-till Boss]

Don't surrender Bucky ! I'm enjoying this way too much !

And thank you Sunny !

[Buckrub]

But you haven't said why you this this particular issue is one that is in the jurisdiction of the states.

What if the court decided marijuana should be legalized? Would you consider that a states rights issu or a federal one? Or for that matter should ANY drug use be considered a state or federal issue?

I'm not being difficult. I just want to know the criteria.

BKB

Barry, honestly, I'm too busy this morning to keep up with both arguments. That's the sole reason I haven't. Not ignoring anyone. LOTS on my plate today. Been up most of night, and kids got on road at 6:00. Son and son in law are having surgery. Daughter and granddaughter flying home from Vegas. This ain't my top priority today.

Interesting that you brought up the issue of marijuana. Your question made me laugh out loud, to be honest. What if the court decided marijuana should be legalized? Would you consider that a states rights issue or a federal one? Of all the examples you could come up with! Because that is a 100% perfect example of the crux of the matter. AND........I answered this above in detail, but I'll try one more time.

SCOTUS has said that marijuana is illegal. You with me?

Colorado, a legitimate state in the USA, said that it's NOT illegal.

SCOTUS did nothing. If asked, they'd do nothing. In that case, they allowed a state to make their own laws and rulings in DIRECT CONTRADICTION of SCOTUS rulings.

You still with me?

SO, in the case of Marijuana, they ignore State's who do their own thing and make up their own laws. They apparently don't care.

But in the case of Homosexual Marriage, all of a sudden they DO care. They are hypocrites, and they have done so IMHO to further a personal agenda and not anything to do with legal precedent or rules.

And that renders them, again IMHO, a meaningless bunch of snot nosed Elitist Drivel Pushers, to put it mildly.

As to why I disagree with homosexuality in general, I'd ask this.........if Joe Blow murders Harold Jones, and I never heard of either one, why do I care? How does that bother me personally?

I can't be here nonstop today. And this is 4 pages. Break it up and be patient is all I can say. But I am serious, I do get tired of discussing things when I have to repeat myself 9 times and keep getting asked questions I've already answered. If you seriously want to know my opinion, read what I frigging write! Thankyouverymuch.

[Sunshine]

It's neither, because its ALREADY written in Gods Law's.
Its a flat out sin to engage in Homosexuality and the only way to get back into God's good graces are to repent and change.

You CANT change Gods Laws without going to hell.

Actually started reading the Bible and finding it quite interesting.

I did not know about the clean and dirty meats. As for the pork issue:

Attachment 5000 http://www.biblestudygames.com/bible...ealthyfood.htm

[Buckrub]

Oh Sunny. I wish I could sit down with you for a few hours.

Galatians 5:3 says if you try to keep the Old Testament Law, then you are a debtor to keep the WHOLE law! That means animal sacrifices, Priests who come through the lineage of the tribe of Levi, High Priests from the house of Aaron, keeping certain Feasts, and many others. The animal thing was given because the OT law was their CIVIL and RELIGIOUS law both. It is gone. Poof. Replaced. Not in effect any longer.

But we're getting 9 subjects going in one thread. And while I understand your contention that you want the Bible to be the law of the land, I do not. The reason I do not, is because so many people misinterpret it, and I don't want that misinterpretation becoming Civil Law. What a mess that'd be. That's why I've kept my answers (all 6 of 'em!!!) to Jimbo on this SCOTUS ruling out of the realm of religion. I believe our society is better off without sin in it, but I'm not that naive. Besides, I'm a big sinner too. But sin in my culture does affect my society. Murder, Rape, Homosexuality, all of it. Most sins do not affect me personally, which is why I find that a poor reason to "not give a rat's ass" about it. Those three (among hundreds) happen daily, but so far haven't affected me at all. None of them.

[Sunshine]

I've sinned, in the past too Bucky, but cleaned up my act many years ago.

As for being right with God over the last week, I'm sure I'm in trouble with him because of my feelings on these issues.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Again, you both seem so sure this is a decision that should be left to the states and that the SCOTUS decision is therefore illegal. But I have yet to see any critieria on what you base that on. Just because you don't like it? If the state decides it okay its suddenly okay with you? I was born at night but I wasn't born last night.

I suspect strongly that you want all of our laws to reflect your religious beliefs, even though you could not agree to what those should be, considering the arguments that have been going on for 2000 years. Why don't you just say it? You want your own version of Sharia law.

BKB

[Buckrub]

Oh now here we go.

I don't want what Sunny wants. Please don't lump us.

I don't want homosexual marriage to be legal because marriage implies government benefits, tax benefits and breaks, and such. I don't want those benefits and such fiduciary items to be spread onto another group that I don't see how they deserve it. And I don't want my society to accept that kind of behavior either. I haven't mentioned religion. I just simply don't think society is benefited from that behavior, in fact, the opposite.

I told you why, twice. They are inconsistent. But since you phrased it as a putdown, I'll rebut. I think what you want is no restrictions on society at all. And to be honest, if they'd remove all of 'em, I'd buy that compromise.

[Chicken Dinner]

Matthew 7:1

[Captain]

Cappy; You could say the same thing about the "right to bear arms" issue.

The right to bear arms IS in the constitution thus it's an SCOTUS issue.
Goober smoochin', pillow biting, fudge packing and carpet likkin' ain't mentioned in the constitution. So this its a states right issue to decide.

.

[Buckrub]

Same chapter. Matthew 7:20

[Thumper]

Well, it's REALLY hard to get any work done when all my work is being done on the computer and I'm only one click away from "checking in" from time to time. I guess I'll continue getting sucked in ... it's just SO hard to walk away.

I think you just said a lot with the above statement Bucky ... and it also explains a lot.

But sin in my culture does affect my society. Murder, Rape, Homosexuality, all of it.

So, you put homosexuality up there on the level of rape and murder? Now I understand, because I'm with you now and share SOME of your view. I will never say I don't give a rat's ass about murder and rape ... or any comparable crime. If homosexuality is a comparable crime ... I'm guilty of gross insensitivity.

And Sunny ... REALLY? Girl, you know I love ya' ... we have a LONG history and I'll always love ya' no matter what. But sometimes, with your blondness, you may as well be in "outer space"! The book you're studying has been deemed "out-dated" and was updated many, many years ago. You need to go on Amazon and order the new paperback. IMHO, we're long overdue for another update ... the sooner the better, but that's just my unpopular opinion.

[Buckrub]

No Jim. Not on the same level. Of course not. For that reason, I've said that the SCOTUS opinion on Abortion is FAR more important than this one.

But just because they can be ranked, which puts Homosexuality way below both those, doesn't mean it fell off the list entirely.

And it ain't my list man. If you don't believe the Book that is my standard of right and wrong, that's fine. I gave up trying to make you believe. But I do believe in it. Why is your way the only way, and my way is not allowed?

[Chicken Dinner]

And, in Matthew 3:10

[Buckrub]

And 1 John 3:4

[Thumper]

I have a question for you Bucky. WTF does marriage have to do with anything anydamnway? It doesn't seem to mean anything to many people ... just check out the divorce rate in this country. But that aside, let's look at my situation. Lynn and I have lived together (lived in sin as far as some are concerned) for over 30 years. That's longer than probably 75% of my friends have even been married. Heck, it's longer than my own mom and dad were married! Sure, we've had our ups and downs through the years (some of those years witnessed here), not unlike most married couples, but we've always managed to overcome the obstacles and remain committed to each other. That's 30 plus years ... yet if something happens to me, Lynn gets none of my Social Security or VA benefits and if it weren't for my will, she wouldn't even have any claim to my assets. On a much simpler note, we pay extra for car insurance. I get a discount because I have the house AND my truck insured with the same company, but even though she lives here ... and has since we've owned the house (26 years) ... and we've always been a "couple" ... we're not married and cannot get the "multi-car" discount. Most of the years I was self-employed, I paid through the nose for private insurance (before I signed up for VA) because Lynn could not add me to her company insurance ... because we were not married. Simple things like that which add up. Gays would be in the same boat even though they'd WANT to get married, but could not. I don't see the fairness.

The advantage I have is, I suppose we could always get married. But the gays never had that option. We have gay friends in California who have been together FOREVER! I really don't even know how long as they were friends of Lynn and were a couple before I ever met them. (30-40 years?) ALL of their assets and benefits have accrued just like any married couple, but legally, many benefits are denied them. Why? Is it fair?

[Sunshine]

I don't want Sharia Law.
We already have a Constitution, Bill of Rights and many more documents this country has followed for many years, that our Founding Father's established UNDER GOD.

[Thumper]

Somehow, I keep getting reminded as to why I hate organized religion.

[Captain]

Being the noticer I am. I noticed you and Posthole BOTH ignored my answer above.

[HideHunter]

I know y'all probably don't think so, but being a newbie, this is all really something to read. And I can't tell if any of you are serious, or y'all just like fucking with each other. LOL I enjoy much .....

Like DD - I'm still trying to sort it out myself. In honesty, one of the reasons this is my favorite site on the internet is, I've never been associated with a more intelligent, informed and diverse group of people.. I seldom get too deeply involved in these "discussions" is because if there's any "deadwood" in the place - I'm it. I've seen some real knock-down drag-outs. While things are often censured - nothing is ever censored. Only very occasionally, does anyone "take their ball and go home". There is probably no place I've ever frequented (including school)where I've seen both sides represented in terms I can understand.. Sure - you have to sort through some bullshit (and shit-disturbing) but there are some views presented here I could never get anywhere else. Couple more I wish would show up more often ("Will", most especially) thnx everyone..

[BarryBobPosthole]

Could you repeat the question? I honestly can't find it.

But of course the right to bear arms is a constitutional right so that is not a states rights issue at all. Unless your Texas of course, all states have to defer to the 2nd amendment to the constitution.

Bucky seems to want states to opt out of the marriage business and not have anything to do with civil unions. But of course he's also concerned because somebody might get federal benefits based on their civil union so they kind of have to be involved. But if the states get out of the civil union business, then that leaves it to the feds to decide because of all those issues. Thats why his argument makes absolutely no sense at all. Its circular. Like his brain.

BKB

[Thumper]

And it ain't my list man. If you don't believe the Book that is my standard of right and wrong, that's fine. I gave up trying to make you believe. But I do believe in it. Why is your way the only way, and my way is not allowed?

Well, at least you finally admitted what I've been saying all along, and what you've been denying. So your religious beliefs really ARE the crux of your argument. And all along I thought it was just a states rights issue.
Oh well, I'm sitting in a parking lot waiting on Lynn to arrive so we can have lunch together. I HATE typing on the phone, so I'm gonna bail. Again! Later ....

[BarryBobPosthole]

Bucky and Thumper left. That means I win.
BKB

[Thumper]

I just walked back in the door dipwad!

Wanna argue about sumpin'?

[Sunshine]

I'm still here, just being ignored. I Win!