I'm curious what the thought process is of opening up bow season in the middle of August. Is there that many deer that need that need thinned or what?
I'm curious what the thought process is of opening up bow season in the middle of August. Is there that many deer that need that need thinned or what?
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
Albert Einstein
I don't have a clue. It's just always been that way. And really no limit on Bucks, no check in or tags either. Shoot load and go.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
And it's not just bow season. It's bow AND gun season starting September 1st with no limit on Bucks. image-2571620869.jpg
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
Note to every state in the Union:
SC prospers. Year after year.
Think about it.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
And Sunday hunting is allowed and always has been. So there are 15 days for bow hunting and 123 days of gun season (138 days total) with no limit per day or per season on bucks. Literally one hunted could shoot a thousand bucks in a season and still be legal.
We all shoot as many as we want/need and every year there are tons in their place. Never seen a shortage.
But God it's too hot and dry to hunt this year.
We will see what September brings.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
My point.
And it's not the solution here either. But 90% of folks think it is.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
You REALLY need to listen to what is being discussed HOTLY here, and many other places. Deer declines are serious.........where they used to be amazingly prolific. And what is the #1 solution discussed??
Shorter seasons.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Not down here.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
They are over thinking it.
Shorter season equals less deer killed to hunters more deer killed to automobiles.
Longer deer season (or higher bag limits) equals more deer harvested to hunters to use them and less to autos to rot on the side of the road.
The mentality that shoot less will mean more deer is akin to not keeping fish out of a lake so there will be more fish.... That's BS too, you can't hurt a lake (fish population) with a hook. Carrying capacity determines how many fish are in a lake and how many deer are in the woods.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
While we're talking about herd management here's a little article I read about a few years concerning whether or not to shoot spikes. The Arkansas game and fish commission has convinced the majority of hunters (or at least the ones who make the rules) that if you let the spikes walk then next year they'll all be eight pointers. Research shows different as a study over a 20 generation period proves. However the AGFC has never let actual facts interfere with their decision making hence we have a three point rule and are over run with little scrub bucks.
here's the link, kinda lengthy reading but it might prove helpful in herd management, then again it is Aggies
https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/...w7000_0247.pdf
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
Albert Einstein
As far as the "how" that is something you added. What I said is you can't hurt a pond with a hook. A net would be a different thing.
Like you, I have a hard time taking a big fish out of the pond. I use to have no problem and would mount MANY of them. Now it's what I call a "picture fish" and throw it back ASAP.
If I'm fishing with a friend that wants a mess of fish I have no problem with them taking all they want except any bass over 5 pounds. Those get photographed and released.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
Well, it is the single most hot topic at the Arkansas hunting chat site. In season, out of season, all the time. "We" have seen our deer decline to where we used to see 40 a day easy, and now that is a HIGH season total in many places. Yes, the 3 point rule has increased by a percentage the average antler size of the harvest. It has its place. When I grew up, I shot a buck. I see horns? 2 inches? BAM. Back then, I worked, and the total season was two one-week periods, staring on Monday, ending on Saturday. That's it.
Then does began to be legal. Wow. More deer to shoot. Plus we had like a 20,000,000 to 1 ratio because everybody had shot every buck every year for 30 years.
The 3 point rule was put in in 1998. At that time, I started doing what I'd never done. I started watching deer. Wow. Deer do this. Deer do that! Who'd a thunk it? There's a buck!! Wait.........it has 2 on this side, does the other have 3???? And a by product of that was that I learned more about deer in general.
Fast forward to 2014. The deer rich woods of the Pine Plantation South Arkansas that held small but plentiful deer..........they began to disappear! ??? Now we have coyotes taking over. Same old bobcats. Mt. Lions are seen and shot where never before. Bears are all OVER South Arkansas, where they never were......these are all massively multiple confirmed sightings, not hear say. I hear if you have a lot of carnivores, you have a lot of deer. Poppycock. Another 'generality' about deer that isn't true. We have more rabbits than anytime in my life. They're tasty too.
Meanwhile AGFC is doing what America is doing politically. They are mimicking an old method tried elsewhere, and which has failed miserably, but they're so far behind that they think it's smart to do. And it's destroying not just deer, but deer HUNTING. Folks are abandoning it right and left, cause there's nothing to see..........and the by product that SHOULD be there.....the bigger antlers due to reduced density.....are not there either. Oh, I admit this..........there are a FEW great big deer killed every year, sometimes bigger than usual. One was 120 yards from the property line at my farm. So some folks think "Well maybe it's working".
Then, add in that a brazillion acres are clearcut in S. Arkansas, where they used to hide it, now you can literally see for miles. Flat nothing. Like a bomb zone. Deer love small clearcuts. But 1,000 acres at a time, and another 1,000 1/4 of a mile away, and another, and another??? Nope.
We get told "Well the weather affected it. You are not in the woods enough to really know. Deer are there but they've learned to pattern you".....and 1,000 other things. Well, if they are there, they are flying because they aren't leaving footprints. Plenty of bear prints! Plenty of cat prints! But deer? Just a few.
And the single most prevalent cry now is "WE MUST CONVINCE THEM TO SHORTEN THE SEASON".
It's a soapbox item for me, and a lifelong passion, and it hurts to see where we are. And when I look at South Carolina, I realize how stupid we are.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
I totally agree, and the real deal is, it hurts most ponds or lake NOT to take fish out. I have absolutely no issue with a person keeping a trophy. I hate to see big fish regularly cut though. I will clean a big fish if he's gut hooked and not feel a bit of guilt about it. But I'd rather keep 20 one pounders than three or four five pounders, which I've seen many people do. The hardest part is just keeping my mouth shut (surprise!). Too many hunters and fishermen want to tell everybody else what they need to do. As long as someone is within reason, we oughta just keep our damned self to our own business.
As old Hank used to say....
BKB
you can thank Steve Wilson, Clintons old crony for the progressive mentality of the AGFC. Course I don't have to tell you that
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
Albert Einstein
There are almost no good AGFC commissioners since Hal Honeycutt. They are picked by how much they contribute to the Governor. Still, NJ is having a MESS right now because they elect theirs, and some PETA nut got elected.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
I have no problem with political appointments if they're appointed on their credentials and not their political affiliations
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
Albert Einstein
I think the most deer hunters are just too lazy to hunt, just like their working habits. And 60% plus of everyone in the woods are a thief. It's sad what deer hunting has turned into .
Well yeah.
But none are.
None.
What's the last time a true sportsman, an honest guy who cares more about the future of the outdoors in Arkansas than he does hunting at Jackson Point or Brandywine, was on the Commission?
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Well.........just read of another first hand Mt. Lion sighting, this time where my late FIL had his camp, or thereabouts..........down the Wild Goose road in the Refuge. That's a far different type of country than where others have been seen. Then a second report of two being seen at a guy's farm.
Also, another guy pointed out that SC is actively trying to eradicate coyotes, and Arkansas does nothing. He also told me that the 'no tag, no count' deal is a state law, and their DNR can't do anything about it, but would if they could.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
Sorry Bucky but I just don't believe the whole Mt Lion stories. Just saying you read a "first hand" story (like that makes it real) ain't evidence of cats. I can write a very believable story about seeing one and serve it up as evidence. Bet a bunch of people would pass that story around as truth too. Guess that would be a first hand story too.
We (in NC) have been hearing reports of Eastern Cougars (extinct) for as long as I can remember. NEVER has a trail cam ever got a picture. There was one trail cam picture once that made the rounds as "first hand" and "true evidence" until the exact same photo was found from a trail cam in MONTANA! Someone downloaded it and posted their "first hand" story about seeing it and getting proof on their trail cam on NCDEER.com. And of course for months it was very much "real evidence" and proof for all the story tellers and believers. The wildlife commission uncovered the picture from its original source and exposed that first hand story for what it was.
I don't care how many websites or what group has evidence at LEAST 90 percent is BS. And the other 10% is questionable at best.
There are websites on the extinct eastern cougar with all these first hand accounts and it's all fairy dust. Like the passenger pigeon they are gone. And no amount of people saying they see them is gonna bring them back. Just another Bigfoot for folks that want to, or need have a story to tell. It's always I hear of, or I know someone that knows someone that saw one. And of course there is that story of "my uncle ran over one with his car just south of (insert town name), but would not pick it up because they were afraid the wildlife folks would charge him with something."
Shoot one and make a picture and we will talk.
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
It's been a while since we talked about this, but isn't Arkansas's and South Carolina's deer population about the same? I wonder what the difference in harvest numbers annually are. With SC's liberal hunting season, if they are taking a lot more deer but their population is pretty stable, would that have more to do with recruitment than it does anything? What drives recruitment the most? That might explain too, the coyote programs.
BKB
Mercy. This can of worms is bigger than the ocean.
I don't know if they are taking more. Their seasons are the longest in the US. That does not equate to taking more, which fact is hard to get through the noggins of Arkansas sportsmen.
They don't know for a fact how many they are taking. They don't tag 'em. They don't check 'em. It's same as rabbit or squirrel hunting there.
Coyote programs help, but that's not the answer. The only true difference I can come up with is Arkansas' 3 point rule. We all bought into QDMA, kill the does, try to get 1:1 ratio, all that. It's bunk. You need about 4:1 does to keep enough bucks around to hunt, it turns out. And what works behind a high fence in S. Texas doesn't necessarily work in the jungle thickets of pine cutovers.
One thing I know for a FACT.
I don't know what the answer is. That's what I know.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.
http://www.ncwildlife.org/News/Blogs...thbusters.aspx
"Finally, one of the most tenacious rumors regards cougars (also called panthers and mountain lions). The Wildlife Commission receives dozens of calls reporting sightings every year. Nearly all are unconfirmed, and many turn out to be bobcats, deer, foxes or coyotes — all of which are common in North Carolina. All confirmed sightings since 1950 turn out to be escaped captive animals, kept as pets. The wild eastern cougar has been extinct in North Carolina for many years. Occasionally, the myth pops up that the Commission, or some other government agency, released cougars to control the feral pig population. This is not true."
A Government that pays people to do nothing destorys their willingness to do anything!
From what I've seen of South Card Lina I think they have more habitat.
BKb
I believe half the confusion is that when a BIG cat is spotted in the wild, people simply don't know what they are called (officially). Cougar, Puma, Panther, Mountain Lion, Catamount and who knows what else? Heck, I've seen four in the wild ... 2 in California, 1 in Nevada and 1 in Florida. The Florida cat was easy, I simply assumed it was a "Florida Panther". The one's I saw "out west", I simply called Mt. Lions ... I honestly have no clue what the differences are. I suppose I could study up on it and figure it out.
The cat I spotted here (Florida) was just 30 minutes north of me. I had my business then and I was sent out to a small land clearing site on the outskirts of "The Green Swamp" to clean a piece of heavy equipment they had to perform maintenance on. I had to travel down a dirt road for about a mile off the highway (Hwy. 471). On the way back out, a "panther" crossed the (dirt) road right in front of me. I got an excellent look at the cat as it crossed not 20-30 feet in front of my truck and was moving fairly rapidly, but not overly hurried. I wanted to take pics of it's tracks, but that was the pre-cell phone camera days and I had no camera with me. What concerned me the most was it appeared emaciated. VERY skinny. The crappy part, I was all excited about spotting one there and immediately reported it (via cell phone) to the Florida Fish & Game Dept. What surprised me was they acted like they could give a rat's ass. Sort of a "Oh, yeah, ok" response. They didn't even care for the details on exactly where I was. Now that I think about it, I guess I'm not really sure what their response SHOULD have been ... I just expected a bit more interest I suppose.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
30 years ago I was bow hunting a really remote area, and honestly I was probably trespassing, but very very people bow hunted back then so that's how I justified it. LOL One this day I saw a long tailed cat, never seen one before in Arkansas and I damn sure wasn't a 100% sure of what kinda cat it was even, but it stayed out of bow range, which again was fine with me. I never told a soul, two reason, 1) I didn't wanna have to try and explain it and #2 I wasn't really where I supposed to be. Well, many years after that I was talking to a good friend who lived across the bayou from where I was hunting that day. He got to telling me that he had bought his wife a long tailed cat, she was from Louisiana and they lived back in the sticks. They too had told no-one about their cat purchase. To make a long story short, his cat escaped, which again they told no-one on fears of getting is some kind of trouble for having it. Well, after thinking and tracking back, that was probably the cat I saw, it was only two miles from where it had a escaped and was within two months of it also. Still to this day, and many years later, it was the only questionable cat I've ever saw in Arkansas after a ridiculous amount of hunting time.
Last edited by No-till Boss; 08-10-2015 at 11:34 AM.
" Cougar, Puma, Panther, Mountain Lion, Catamount".. all the same critter.. Florida panther is a subspecies.. They would breed readily with 'western' cats but biologists hope to preserve the pure strain. I'm jealous you got to see one.
My folks saw a jaguarondi just a couple hundred yards from their home in Chassowitzka (FL).. Hadn't been for google - I'm not sure I'd ever figured that one out..
If you turn a dog loose to hunt – you’d better to be ready to deal with what he trees.
Hidey-Ho, the Florida Panther I saw was either sick (didn't "act" sick though) or starving I think. Then again, maybe I was just expecting a heavier build. It was the dead of summer, so I'm sure they shed a lot of their coat down here. It just didn't look all that healthy to me ... much skinnier than I'd expect. Kinda like a skinny old mangy looking coyote when you're expecting a healthier-looking "dog" build. I look at those pics Big Sky posts and they look NOTHING like the 'yotes I've seen here. Ours generally look like skinny, mangy dogs. Hmmm, kinda the same description as that panther ... a skinny, mangy (but big) cat.
BTW ... I had to Google " jaguarundi".![]()
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness" - Mark Twain
I don't know what to say to you. I guess you're telling me I haven't seen or heard them. I guess you're telling me that the guys in our camp, long time trusted and experienced hunters, haven't seen them and couldn't get a shot? I guess you're saying there aren't literally hundreds of game cam pictures, many clear as Len's wedding photos, in this state. I guess this guy didn't kill one:
http://www.agfc.com/Pages/newsDetails.aspx?show=952
I actually don't understand why you are incredulous? To what end?
Our AGFC has done the same thing as NC has done, denied, denied, denied. I got the PR Director of AGFC in my kitchen (at camp) and grilled him. He 'has to' state there are none (this was 5 years ago). Now, he admits they are here. Their CURRENT statement is that they are here, all right, but there are no females. I don't know........I see prints of cubs and mama's, but whatever.
I can't stop stating what is obvious. I don't know why the reluctance to believe in the face of such evidence, but that's fine. It's a free country.
WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.