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Thread: But We've Got Nothing to Hide

  1. #1
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    But We've Got Nothing to Hide

    Right?
    BKB



    Show us the data.

    That’s the message behind a joint lawsuit seeking to force the Los Angeles law enforcement authorities to release a massive trove of information collected by ubiquitous cameras that read license plates and can thus track the movements of millions of motorists not suspected of any crime. The cameras, called automatic license plate readers (ALPRs), are on fixed locations, including stop lights, street signs and in squad cars. Each camera can record as many as 1,800 plates per minute, and more than 160 million "data points" have been collected in Los Angeles County, according to one report. Critics say that gives authorities a huge database on the comings and goings of ordinary citizens.

    "By matching your car to a particular time, date and location — and building a database of that information over time — law enforcement can learn where you work and live, what doctor you go to, which religious services you attend, and who your friends are," said Electronic Frontier Foundation Staff Attorney Jennifer Lynch, whose group has joined with the American Civil Liberties Union in filing suit. "The public needs access to data the police actually have collected to be able to make informed decisions about how ALPR systems can and can't be used."

    The lawsuit, filed Monday in Los Angeles County Superior Court, asks a judge to order the Los Angeles Police Department and the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department to release records from the week of Aug. 12, 2012. While both agencies did provide some materials following requests filed under the California Public Records Act, they failed to disclose documents related to sharing information with other agencies, the lawsuit alleges.

    "By matching your car to a particular time, date and location ... law enforcement can learn where you work and live, what doctor you go to, which religious services you attend, and who your friends are."

    - Jennifer Lynch, EFF staff attorney

    Automatic license plate readers can be easily mounted on fixed locations like stoplights or directly onto a patrol vehicle. Those mounted on squad cars must be activated by a police officer, but ALPR's at fixed locations are constantly scanning plates and recording the dates and times that specific vehicles are at specific locations

    The ALPR system used by Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department officers, for example, uses “hot lists” comprised of “user defined data that is manually input into the informational data file so that ALPR users will be alerted whenever a ‘vehicle of interest’ is located,” according to an internal directive cited in the lawsuit.

    The directive, according to the lawsuit, noted that current use of “hot lists” include AMBER alerts and vehicle associated with 290 sex registrants.

    “The document notes, ‘Often times, these hotlists will identify a ‘vehicle of interest’ which is not necessarily wanted for a crime (ex: sex registrants vehicle),” the lawsuit continues. “Personnel must use discretion and in some cases have independent information justifying a traffic stop.”

    In October, ACLU officials sent a second request to the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department to learn additional details about the “hot list” system — which falls within the definition of public records under the California Public Records Act (CRPA) — but authorities declined to provide them, the lawsuit alleges.

    “These records do not fall under any exemption to the CRPA, and, even if portions of them do, they could be produced in redacted form,” the lawsuit reads.

    On average, according to a June 2012 report in LA Weekly, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department and the Los Angeles Police Department conduct approximately 22 scans for every one of the 7 million vehicles registered in Los Angeles County. More than 160 million data points have reportedly been logged by both agencies as of June.

    "Police can and should treat location information from ALPRs like other sensitive information,” ACLU-SC Senior Staff Attorney Peter Bibring said in a statement. “They should retain it no longer than necessary to determine if it might be relevant to a crime and get a warrant if they need to keep it any longer. They should limit who can access it, who they can share it with and create an oversight system to make sure the limits are followed.”

    LAPD spokesman Officer Cleon Joseph declined to comment on the pending litigation when contacted by FoxNews.com.

    Meanwhile, Steve Whitmore, a spokesman for Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca, told FoxNews.com he believes the department is on “solid footing” in regards to withholding the records requests due to exemptions pertaining to government and security files.

    “But we’re more than willing to have a judge decide this matter,” Whitmore said Thursday. “The irony is we share the concern of privacy. Do we want to release files on people who have done nothing wrong?”

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/10...#ixzz2Su5cBnc1

  2. #2
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Buckrub's Avatar
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    The Bill of Rights should have had a Privacy Amendment. Big oversight, IMHO.
    WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.

  3. #3
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone ever thought there'd be this much data or even dream of the applications you could do with it. Google actually scares me more than the government.

    BKB

  4. #4
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) DeputyDog's Avatar
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    Too bad there isn't a way to read peoples minds and know if they are ever going to commit a terrorist act or serious crime and then this type of technology could be used to only track them, not the law abiding citizens. That way, when an event like 9/11 or the Boston bombings happen, law enforcement won't have to answer why the suspects weren't discovered sooner and the plot stopped before it happened.
    "Never try to fight an Old Dude. If you win, there's no glory; if you lose, your reputation is shot."

  5. #5
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Isn't that a Tom Cruise movie?
    BKB

  6. #6
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Seems like it would be a goldmine for helping recover stolen vehicles or vehicles with stolen plates. Heck, even vehicles used in a crime where a citizen caught the plate number. It mentioned Amber Alerts ... heck, it could be used for a lot of good as long as it's not "misused". I suppose that's what all the hoopla is about ... like LAPD has a lot of credibility lately.

  7. #7
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    One of my sons borrowed my Pike Pass and got a $90 ticket in the mail because his tag didn't match mine. I still think that's chicken shit since the toll was paid and it ain't none of the OTA's business what car I drive. But, rules is rules I guess.

    BKB

  8. #8
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Buckrub's Avatar
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    You can't discover suspects before they commit a crime.

    I'm sorry.

    Freedom trumps safety.
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  9. #9
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    I guess is we'd have watched Tamerlan Tsarnaev a bit closer, the marathon would have gone on without a hitch.

  10. #10
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Here's another scary part. The other day i did a search on Lock and Lock products to give some info to Bucky. Now when I look at FoxNews website, Lock and Lock ads pop up on the main screen. There's has to be a connection there of some sort.
    Pisses me off.

    BKB

  11. #11
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Here's the way I see this ... it's a data base that CAN be used if needed. I doubt it's used to watch Joe Average as he goes to work every day. It's a tool ...if a red flag pops up, this tool can be used to prevent or solve a crime. What's the difference than having your fingerprints on file? LE doesn't sit around all day looking at Larry Dogooder's fingerprints ... but it sure doesn't hurt when some slimeball rapes and murders somebody's grandmother and leaves a bloody print behind. THEN ... out comes the database.

    I assume that's how it SHOULD work ... the trick is, to make sure that IS the way it works. What's the difference between this and a zillion bank, convenience store, etc. cameras? LE doesn't sit around these places reviewing every Tom, Dick & Harry who walks into the store ... until a customer walks in and finds the safe open and the clerk dead behind the counter.

  12. #12
    pUMpHEAD SYSOp Thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryBobPosthole View Post
    Here's another scary part. The other day i did a search on Lock and Lock products to give some info to Bucky. Now when I look at FoxNews website, Lock and Lock ads pop up on the main screen. There's has to be a connection there of some sort.
    Pisses me off.

    BKB
    I get that all the time also P-hole. Sheeesh, I REALLY get bombed. I'll have sample ads from every dang thing I've researched on e-Bay! I think there is way to turn that off but I just ignore it. Wasn't this discussed here at one time?

  13. #13
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Buckrub's Avatar
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    I don't know what Lock and Lock products are.

    I told you how to eliminate the ads. Adblock Plus for Firefox, but the one I downloaded, I don't even remember the name. Search the posts archives, I put it up there. It works great. I get no more ads.
    WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.

  14. #14
    Administrator BarryBobPosthole's Avatar
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    Its the link to the lockable, airtight, watertight plastic boxes that you were looking for so your dang sammich wouldn't get soggy when the ice melted in your cheap ass cooler. Which it looks like you promtly ignored.

    And these ads aren't pop up ads, these are the normal ads you find on any news website you look at.

    BKB

  15. #15
    Senior Member (too much time on their hands) Buckrub's Avatar
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    https://disconnect.me/

    Not me. This stops 'em.
    WARNING - Due to the rising costs of ammunition, warning shots will no longer be given.

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