Torture report

[BarryBobPosthole]

Well, like I said, y'all are welcome to your own beliefs. Mine are still the same as they were before this mess with 9/11. I don't believe that it is ever justified to treat another human being with the level of disrespect and misery that torture brings to get information. We've seen what the results of that kind of thinking has produced in history and there's no free pass for us to lower our morals to that level just because we are victims of something in our nation. I think we ought to be ashamed of ourselves for secret prisons and holding prisoners of war indefinitely with no charges whatsoever against them. and no, we don't want to bring them on shore to the US because that might taint us for real so we keep them in dark places where we think they are hidden from sight.

And no, I am not naive to the 'new thinking' about war either. The 'tit for tat' thinking that the only way we can win a war is to stoop to the levels of our enemies. If you want to think that fine. But don't tread any moral high ground any more with me about high American ideals. Torture and imprisonment without any kind of due process goes against the very grain of our written constitution. We trample on the very inalienable rights that we sanctimoniously invoke for ourselves but deny others.

So go for it.

BKB

[Buckrub]

The constitution is for citizens.

If your pollyanna thinking prevails, we will not exist to be able to argue it.

[Buckrub]

When we fail to correctly observe reality, it marches on oblivious.

[Chicken Dinner]

In what other war have we provided due process to POWs, charged them with a crime, tried them in domestic criminal courts or released them prior to the cessation of hostilities?

[Thumper]

Put lipstick on a pig and you still have a pig. War is war ... no way to make it pretty. Declared or not (heck, Vietnam wasn't even a declared war), we're at war. Where do you draw the line as to what is torture anydamnway? We can drop napalm on a village during wartime. We can spray the stuff into bunkers, caves and tunnels, as well as vehicles, convoys, small bases and structures ... it's a gel that sticks to people and burns at 5000 degrees. Is that torture or a weapon? The list is endless ... I honestly don't know where the line is drawn. How is war EVER considered moral? All you "Berkely graduates" can cry all you want ... reality is reality.

What baffles me is the crap that I'm hearing on tv lately. It seems to depend on whom is doing the talking and what network is hosting the discussion ... some say we never obtained any useful info from our "torture" and others spout off a pile of intel we obtained which saved countless American lives. I tend to lean toward the latter.

[Chicken Dinner]

I think my quote from Louis Freeh was spot on. It's fine to argue whether the Intel we got was effective or whether we should engage in these sorts of tactics in the future. However, they were approved by all three levels of our government. So, don't question their legality after the fact.

[Buckrub]

I continue to be baffled at the staggering dichotomy in American thinking on all fronts.

[BarryBobPosthole]

Sorry you feel that way.

And don't ever call me a fucking traitor again.

BKB

[BarryBobPosthole]

And you know? You can stick Goodhunting up your ass too while you're at it.
BKB

[Chicken Dinner]

Jim, that's crossing the line.

[Thumper]

Sorry you feel that way.

And don't ever call me a fucking traitor again.

BKB

Ha ha! Awww, cool your jets and don't get your panties in a wad. Coincidentally someone just sent that to me in an email this morning and I posted it as we were headed out the door to lunch. The "traitor" part bothered me too and is a stupid, over the top b/s email thing, but I didn't have time to screw around with doing the ol' photoshop job and blacking it out. The whole thing fits this post to a tee, other than the last word. That part of it is stupid and uncalled for ... like most goofy things passed around the internet. Take a chill pill.

[Thumper]

Awww crap! I tried to edit it and accidentally deleted the whole thing!

How's this? Better?

terror2.jpg

[Buckrub]

Me?m
I didn't do that did I?

??

[Thumper]

No, you get a pass this time. I was too busy to do a quick edit and shit in P-holes Wheaties I guess.

[Captain]

Well the "poster" does say more along the lines of how I believe. Perhaps the last word was a bit strong but I don't see where Posty should have taken it as directed at him?
Posthole is like many here a cornerstone of this place and my friend and somehow I hope he was kidding. There is no question that NOTHING good can come from releasing this report and one of the stupidious things I've ever seen done.
And judging what was done THEN by what standards you want to apply NOW is crazy. If they want the rules changed fine, change them but don't fault people for doing way was acceptable at that time.

[Hombre]

Escalated.jpg

[johnboy]

Kinda sorry I started this thread but after listening to that idiot Feinstein on the tube I was so amazed that anybody would actually do anything as stupid as what she was doing that I had to comment. It just seemed to me to be a deliberate attempt to further divide the American people for purely political reasons and from what has happened on this site, I think I was right.

Time to move on, IMHO.

[Captain]

Kinda sorry I started this thread but after listening to that idiot Feinstein on the tube I was so amazed that anybody would actually do anything as stupid as what she was doing that I had to comment. It just seemed to me to be a deliberate attempt to further divide the American people for purely political reasons and from what has happened on this site, I think I was right. Time to move on, IMHO.

You were dead right on all points. There was/is/and never will be a reason to release such information. It was stupid in the highest order.